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The Forum > Article Comments > Memory, trauma and Gaza > Comments

Memory, trauma and Gaza : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 17/2/2009

With each Israeli show of force, their story of victimhood becomes less and less palatable for many people around the globe.

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Keith,

Happy New Yyear to you.

You say >> “You'd be better off encouraging the Jewish Israeli's to sue for peace now, while they can ...”

Keith I support NOTHING except Israel’s right to defend itself. Israel is in NO mortal danger from the Palestinians. I know you hope otherwise, but it is merely wishful thinking. It is 100 times more likely that Israel will be nuked by Iran, or one of its many terrorist offshoots.

You say >> “ They've [Palestinians] been punished by an interfering neighbour who wouldn’t accept the democratic outcome of a UN supervised election.”

Keith you put more spin on this than any tennis player ever brought to court. Are you suggesting that Hamas are innocent victims of Israeli harassment who really just want to live nice quiet lives?

Israel isn’t upset that their preferred candidate lost. They don’t have problems with Hamas because they really wanted Abbas and Fatah to win. This isn’t about Israel’s desire to control Palestinian affairs. It is not about an interfering neighbour who wouldn’t accept the democratic outcome of a UN supervised election. That’s just utter rubbish.

Israel has problems with Hamas because Hamas is committed to Israel’s destruction. In other words “It’s the eco... rockets, stupid”. It really is that simple.

In matters of security it is irrelevant that Hamas is democratically elected. Israel has every right to protect itself and this insane idea that Israel should just ignore the fact there is an armed group camped across their border raining in hundreds of rockets a day and sworn to their destruction, is fantasyland. No western democracy would ever allow it. Not even for a DAY.

You say >> “That's just so f...king sick, unnatural and akin to Nazism that it is utterly unacceptable ...”

Besides being way off the mark, I find it highly ironic that you cannot see that the real Nazis in this picture, the group committed IN WRITING to the destruction of an entire people, is HAMAS. Yet how could you miss it?
Posted by PaulL, Thursday, 19 February 2009 7:46:51 PM
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It is clearly evident from the comments posted by SJF and Keith, that logical thought and cogent argument is quite beyond them.

SJF takes issue with me for raising the subject of Albanians helping and sheltering Jews during World World Two but as my previous post clearly stated, I was merely responding to a point made by the author. The author suggested that this kind of action - Muslims helping Jews during World War Two - was often forgotten. My response was to suggest that perhaps in Israel, it actually wasn't. That's all.

Anyway, after all of their blather about concentration camps and Nazism, can they please explain to me whose supporters it was who are pictured in footage shown on both YouTube and LiveLeak chanting the following: "Long live Hitler", "Put Jews in ovens" and "Jews are fossil fuel"? And actually smiling as they chant this. Oh, that's right - they're Hamas supporters in Los Angeles!!
Posted by Savage Pencil, Thursday, 19 February 2009 10:00:16 PM
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Paul.L

'... this insane idea that Israel should just ignore the fact there is an armed group camped across their border raining in hundreds of rockets a day and sworn to their destruction, is fantasyland. No western democracy would ever allow it. Not even for a DAY.'

Really?

OK. Let’s just, for the sake of argument, assume that Israel simply MUST defend itself from all these Hamas rockets.

So why doesn’t it do just that?

The technology to defend Israel’s borders from rocket attacks has been around for at least 25 years. One of these is the Phalanx system. Considering Israel receives billions of dollars in military aid from the US, money is no object. And besides, I’m sure the US would give it to them for free.

So why doesn’t Israel use it? Why does it deliberately refrain from defending its borders with the technology to protect its own citizens?

Now … it wouldn’t be because Israel might see some propaganda value in getting hit by rockets, would it?

And it wouldn't be because Israel wants to hang onto to its favourite excuse to persecute Palestinians, would it?

And it wouldn't be because Israel wants to control its own citizens through the use of fear, now would it?

Savage Pencil

Shock, horror! Palestians screaming nasty things about ovens and Jews at rallies. Well, stuff happens when you persecute, dispossess and bomb people - they turn nasty, and use your own history to get back at you.

There's no shortage of You Tube examples of fascist abuse coming from Jews. Here's one of some Jewish settler boys screaming at Western Palestinian-rights protectors: 'We killed Jesus and we're proud of it.' [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYuWOi56Wq0]

Nice ...
Posted by SJF, Thursday, 19 February 2009 11:39:58 PM
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SJF,
Your stance is surprisingly close to that of the Jewish orthodox rabbis. Their warning was, the result of Zionism and the State of Israel will be tragic and catastrophic. “Redemption”, for them, does not mean a “State of Israel” but rather the Torah inspired, ‘time of universal peace and brotherhood, in service of the One God’ – this, quite ironically, also approaches the core tenant of Islam.

Jewish thinking relates to the Torah. The Jewish “Exile” narrates the establishment of peace and security, whilst not occupying the lands of others and spilling blood. Jews are required to be loyal citizens in the countries they live, supposedly they are "a light unto the nations" – some, quite clearly, don’t live up to this. Christians and Jews, generally (especially the ‘right-winger’ variety), have certainly misunderstood ‘Jesus the Jew'.

Whilst I don’t imagine you pray SJF, you certainly combine with the Orthodox Jews, where they have always prayed and continue to pray for the speedy and peaceful dismantling of the Zionist state (not that I neccessarily agree with this).

Compassion, the greatest virtue in all major religions prompted by the suffering of others, you have noted as important – apply it evenly.

In following the U.N. process you’d understand the Durban #1, 2001 ‘initiative’ (World Conference against Racism) - an arena where people screamed and hurled insults at each other in a re-enactment of the comedy of the damned. Durban #2, its successor conference, is planned for April (in Geneva). Former Canadian Attorney, General Irwin Kotler (member of summit's steering committee), would certainly have doubts about the #2 enactment. He said, “There is a new sophisticated, globalizing, virulent and even lethal anti-Semitism, reminiscent of the atmospherics of the '30s, and without parallel or precedent since the end of the Second World War.”

So I’ll enjoin with British lawmaker John Mann, “Anti-Semitism is a touchstone for other ills within wider society and unless we move to address its spread now, and as a matter of the utmost urgency, we will all pay a heavy price.”
Posted by relda, Friday, 20 February 2009 8:14:13 AM
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Now that the dust has settled and that very important Israeli election is over, let’s look at the scorecard.

In spite of claims of precision targetting and intelligence -

In Gaza - 15,000 homes destroyed or damaged
50,000 Gazans left homeless
160 schools, 1,500 factories and workshops plus 80 percent of agricultural crops destroyed.
Five UNRWA staff and three contractors killed while on duty,
Four incidents of aid convoys being shot at
53 United Nations buildings sustained damage including the main UNRWA compound in Gaza City hit several times by Israeli shells with tonnes of food and medicine scheduled for distribution destroyed.
29 ambulances and nearly half of 122 health facilities (including 15 hospitals and 43 clinics) destroyed
16 medical personnel killed and 26 injured while on duty.

After the ceasefire, Israel continued to block humanitarian assistance, including shipments of chickpeas, dates, tea bags, macaroni, children’s puzzles, paper needed to print schoolchildren’s textbooks, and plastic bags to distribute food.

In the final tally 1,300-1,400 Palestinians were killed, between one-quarter and one-third being children.

Total Israeli casualties came to 10 combatants (four killed by friendly fire) and three civilians.

Over the last few years, more Israelis died of anaphylaxis from eating peanuts than from Hamas rockets.

It would have been smarter for Israel to bomb peanut factories instead of people.

Who are the victims here?
Posted by wobbles, Friday, 20 February 2009 12:50:50 PM
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"Who are the victims here?"

Within perhaps the next few years a good chance about a third of the world's population.

Who is to blame? By then, it will be a question of total irrelevance. And Now - understanding the new 'Goliath' is far more constructive than the mere use our impotent little 'sling-shots.'
Posted by relda, Friday, 20 February 2009 1:21:42 PM
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