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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel has really overstepped the line > Comments

Israel has really overstepped the line : Comments

By Bruce Haigh, published 16/1/2009

For Israel to have created more instability and uncertainty in the Middle East is irresponsible and selfish in the extreme.

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Mac (and others). Over the past 60 years the once vast array of Arab nations ready to attack Israel has dwindled to the point that only ONE (Iran) still threatens violence, while one other (Syria) mutters darkly.

During these six decades, Israel has remained a very small country with a tiny population sandwiched between vast Arab/Muslim lands having hundreds of millions of citizens. I am yet to see any sign of serious expansion or threat of such from Israel.

The West Bank Palestininans are (slowly) en route to complete Independence. The PA recognizes Israel and, except for tut-tuttings at times like the current police action in Gaza, the majority of Arabs know Israel is no threat (eg Israelis can enter Egypt but NOT Palestininans!)

At this point all lefties should be asking themselves "if arab nations can accept that the Second Holocaust ain't gonna happen..why can't we?" I can understand Hamas giving diehard anti-semites (ie lefties) hope that the 1945 ovens will be restoked, but I can't accept that ALL of you are that dumb.

History has moved on. For every western lefty demanding the average Gazan kill a few Israelis, there is an actual Gazan demanding to know why they can't be allowed to live in peace with their Israeli neighbours.

Of course, Hamas recently murdered several hundred of these in it's anti-Fatah progrom, but there must be tens of thousands of others awaiting the chance to eradicate the murderers. Think about it. cheers.
Posted by punter57, Friday, 16 January 2009 1:26:28 PM
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Leigh, I am sure you are aware of Mencken’s comment that “For every complex problem, there's a simple solution and it's usually wrong”. I fear you have fallen for this trap.

Islam is the principal religion in the Arab states. Palestine is part of the Arab community. Terrorist and fanatical groups are generally recognised as the product of failed states. Palestine is a failed “state”. (I had to put the quotes around “states” to stop someone from telling me there is no Palestinian state). We are all the product of our environments.

Haigh’s claim that “Hamas is the product of generations of abuse and frustration by Israel against Palestinians” is much more likely to be true than yours.

Your reference to religion (“fanatical Islamists”) is justified, but you should be aware that there are fanatics in all religions. Israelis are also the product of their environment, and they are reacting accordingly. Israel itself has become an “extreme right-wing” country, with many fanatical in their beliefs. (Come to think of it, you seem a bit fanatical yourself)

Part of Israel's environment is a strong economy, a powerful military, strong morale and financial support from the US, and this explains much of their activity over the decades. But they are losing support from the rest of the world, it appears. Why is it losing that support? Because, to quote Haigh, “Israel has really overstepped the line”.

(I base my view that Israel is losing support on the resolutions from the UN, and general newspaper commentary from around the world. I have no "hard facts".)

No one is forgetting about the “Russian and Iranian rockets”, though these are fading in significance compared with the assault on Gaza. Why are they fading? Because “Israel has really overstepped the line”.

The vehemence evident in your post indicates that you could have extremist religious viewpoints yourself. Would you like to confirm or deny for our edification?
Posted by HarryG, Friday, 16 January 2009 1:36:24 PM
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History is written by the victors or the most powerful and those who write the truth are branded heretics or anti-Semitic.
Reality is experienced by the victims. It is hard to see Israel as a whole as a victim now- a -days. Yes Israel has a right to exist but to strangle its neighbour by leaching its land and ability to survive?

The problem with Hamas and Hezbollah is that they are funded and armed by external regimes in a proxy war of survival too. Granted some of these regimes are despotic but then again Israel and its all too powerful extremists aren't above a bit of despotism.

Clearly Israel’s real beef it with these regimes behind Hamas and Hezbollah but international politics being what it is direct contact and resolution is mired in national pride etc. Hence it’s easier for both sides to fight a proxy war in which case the increasingly helpless and desperate Palestinians are the victims.

I concur with CJ I'm running out of tolerance with the whole proxy thing and in particular Israel's “holier than thou” unconscienceable behaviour.

I would like to know where in the Jewish religion does it say 2 wrongs= a right (you chose the interpretation of right)?
19 dead in 6 years V 500 in less than 3 weeks most of which are children is hardly proportional.
As for the argument that the Israelis are stressed because of the rockets and therefore justifies this over the top action. By this reasoning to living next to Israel in near 3rd world conditions with a greater probability of dying from an Israeli oops or “acceptable collateral damage” (sic) gives the Palestinians claim to greater suffering.
Then there’s the cause and effect Israel suppresses the Palestinians, they become more radicalized and the cycle goes on. Israel the stronger is in a better position to stop the cycle of violence if it wanted to. Which it apparently doesn’t.

Bruce is right Israel doesn’t care and Australia should stop giving ‘me too’ unconditional support to Israel.
Posted by examinator, Friday, 16 January 2009 1:49:15 PM
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It was not Germany that was ashamed and stigmatised after WWII, but rather, individual Germans who carried that burden. I expect some still do, and it may well be that some still remain who feel no remorse, but must remember to look over their shoulder.

I recommend the website B'Tselem
www.btselem.org/English
and the update blogs they mention below.
Here is part of the email announcing this development:

"For the past two weeks, B’Tselem has been working intensively, under extremely difficult conditions, to document and publicize the harm caused to civilians in the Gaza Strip as part of this fighting. Within a local public discourse that is centered on the military goals of the operation, B’Tselem’s role as an Israeli organization speaking out against disproportionate harm to civilians is crucial."

"Under these unusual circumstances, we have chosen to join forces with the other human rights organizations in Israel in order to maximize the visibility of our collective voice. In addition to a joint press conference held yesterday and daily cooperation on gathering information, we are running an online blog to disseminate information on the human toll of the fighting."

"We urge you to visit our blog daily and follow the ongoing work of the Israeli human rights community on this issue:

Hebrew: http://gazaheb.blogspot.com
English: http://gazaeng.blogspot.com
Posted by Sir Vivor, Friday, 16 January 2009 2:07:43 PM
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Wow, the Israel supporters are really out on a limb now!
It should be self evident that they have stepped over a line when so many innocents die needlessly and "war" is waged on a penned in town of civilians. ("like villagers with guns" quoted an Israel soldier)
Seems even the rest of the world screaming "too far!" is not enough.
The shrill cries of "self defence" ring hollow when all the facts are presented. Sure rockets were fired during a ceasefire...but critical supplies were blockaded too. Promises were broken on both sides. The fact is, a modern wealthy nation is waging asymetric warfare against a population with very few options. Reminds me of a bar fight where the egos and drunkeness lead to stupid, inevitable escalation.
Yep, the US started it all and it could have stopped it too, but that would have involved agreeing with most of Europe...so that wasn't on.
Have you seen all the UN resolutions that were blocked by the US? Hundreds of them!
Sorry folks, but it is very clear where the "loony fringe" is on this one.
I am really really sick of Israel fanboys calling anyone shocked at their behaviour "anti-semitic". This schoolyard tactic may well backfire on them.
The neutral consensus now is that Israel has gone too far. The US must now find some honor and actually broker a *fair* peace.
Posted by Ozandy, Friday, 16 January 2009 2:29:49 PM
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“Israel knows but it doesn’t care. This is dangerous.”

Maybe Israel just cares more about the rockets which land on its schools than the munitions which land on Palestinian schools

“Hamas is the product of generations of abuse and frustration by Israel against Palestinians”

And the Israeli / Munich athletes and hundreds of innocent jet airliner passengers have died at the hand of murderous Palestinian thugs over the past 60 years, who fathered this generation of Palestinian butchers known as ‘Hamas’.

Nothing has changed, least of all the Palestinians, who I recall, were not lead out of Jordan by Arafat but were kicked out.

“For Israel to have created more instability and uncertainty in the Middle East is irresponsible and selfish in the extreme,”

I suppose the Israeli government takes a priority of responsibility to those who elect it to power than those who fire rockets at its electorate.

The whole article is just a poorly constructed bunch of malevolent and monocular drivel.

The actions of Hamas, over the past few years, clearly justify the one-third 1994 Nobel peace prize, handed to Arafat, being posthumously rescinded.
Posted by Col Rouge, Friday, 16 January 2009 2:37:14 PM
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