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The Forum > Article Comments > Apes get rights in Spain > Comments

Apes get rights in Spain : Comments

By Michael Cook, published 21/7/2008

The Spanish Left meets 'Animal Farm': apparently the more intelligent and aware an animal is, the more deserving of basic rights it is.

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This article is full of hate against some kind of ideology that the author feels has done him some injustice by respecting animals.

I find the law (proposed or otherwise) intriguing, but not sure where I stand on it though I support the rights of animals to not be unnecessarily exploited, killed and mistreated by humans.
Posted by Steel, Monday, 21 July 2008 11:09:15 PM
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Nicky, I agree with most of what you are saying.

I am not sure that all animals are sentient beings. I am thinking of bacteria for instance. But to be honest I am not a biologist and am not sure where the "boundary" of animals lies.

It is well know that animals that live in social groups have a very developed consciousness. Alex the African grey parrot could express his thoughts and feelings in english and had the mental age of a 4 year old. There are also quite a few apes that have been taught sign language.

What I don't get is why people would be against animal rights.
Posted by gusi, Tuesday, 22 July 2008 1:33:12 AM
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Hi Gusi

I guess my comments are largely in relation to animals with a central nervous system, who are vertebrate, and have a clearly developed level of intelligence. I think we can establish that the "domestic" animals we use in farming all feel hunger, thirst, fear, pain and loneliness, and in most cases "wild" animals likewise.

That's why I have problems with intensive farming, rodeos, circuses, zoos and the like. Should these animals have rights? The Brambell Committee of the Farm Animal Welfare Council in the UK established decades ago the "Five Freedoms" that ALL animals, as a minimum, have the right to:

1. Freedom from Hunger and Thirst - by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour.
2. Freedom from Discomfort - by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.
3. Freedom from Pain, Injury or Disease - by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.
4. Freedom to Express Normal Behaviour - by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind.
5. Freedom from Fear and Distress - by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering”.

How well do we measure up in that context?

Cheers
Nicky
Posted by Nicky, Tuesday, 22 July 2008 7:22:34 PM
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Gusi, Nicky, there doesn't seem to be any logical reason for opposing these animal rights. The author admits there aren't many apes in Spain.

It's because this piece isn't actually about animal rights, it's because the author is ticked off that rights are being considered for things other than fetuses and coma patients (no mention of whether they're brain dead or not).
Rather than argue the more difficult parts of this stance (such as women's rights, or the ambiguity of forcing those on life support to live) the author has cooked up a broad spray on 'the left' and animal rights.

It's a trojan horse, pure and simple. The argument is scarcely about animal rights at all.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Tuesday, 22 July 2008 7:48:45 PM
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Nicky, TurnLeftThenRight,

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll need to think through the 5 rights for a bit. Obviously we have a long way to go with farm animals.

Gus
Posted by gusi, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 4:08:57 PM
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This shows the law of diminishing returns..and how the absence of an 'issue' causes those who's existence depends on them.. creating new ones to justify their existence,and yearning for relevance.

It also shows a window into the future.. once basic justice is established.. these left wing fools will continually become increasingly petty and pedantic and seek to control more and more minutae of our lives.

Its time for the 'oppressed classes' to right the brutal wrongs and unconscionable exploitation perpetrated against them the Left Wing twits.

The only 'illumination' they are good for is that which comes from a burning copy of the Communist manifesto...

babble babble babble 0_^
Posted by Polycarp, Thursday, 24 July 2008 5:05:28 PM
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