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The Forum > Article Comments > Rudd and the cultural elites > Comments

Rudd and the cultural elites : Comments

By Mark Kelly, published 2/6/2008

Kevin Rudd has powerfully alienated the Australian cultural elite. This was not a smart move politically.

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"[T]he cultural elite are...somehow an important part of the fragile consensual coalition gathered behind Labor’s conquest of state power."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Best. Self. Delusion. Ever.

The cultural elite will NEVER have the guts to advocate throwing out a Labor government. They are therefore completely irrelevant. Its ridiculous to think that Mr Rudd will have lost one single vote because of his reactionary comments on the Henson issue.

Mr Rudd's victory came about because he convinced people who previously voted for Mr Howard that he (Mr Rudd) would better serve their interests. It had nothing to do with people who loathed Mr Howard from the start, and everything to do with those people who changed their minds and supported Labor instead of Liberal. The cultural elite appear to have little or no understanding of these people, and therefore no way to affect politics.

David Jackmanson
http://www.lastsuperpower.net
http://letstakeover.blogspot.com
Posted by David Jackmanson, Monday, 2 June 2008 8:59:54 AM
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Dear Opiners,

I think that the problem with Henson's pictures is that each child is not yet 18, and therefore unable to make an adult's decision over a very private thing, her/his most personal appearance.

Just as Corey Delaney, a 16 y.o., may well regret his actions when he looks for a job in a few years (when his celebrity status is yesterday's news), so too 12 and 13 year olds who pose nude may get teased at school or otherwise wish they had been protected from the consequences of their underage decisions.

Incidentally, whether cultural elites directly affect elections is to me less interesting than whether they are right, a question for the cultural elites both "high-brow" and "low-brow" (eg - the churches, mosques and synagogues who likewise do not necessarily reflect mainstream culture.)
Posted by Tomess, Monday, 2 June 2008 10:17:30 AM
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I agree completely with David Jackmanson, and am rolling in the aisles with laughter at the predicament of the cultural elite. This is the group that started all this by backing that witch Hetty Johnstone, when she attacked Peter Hollingworth in 2001. The elite at the time was reeling from their defeat in the 2001 election, and was full of loathing at Howard at his actions in the Tampa affair. By attacking Hollingworth they thought they could attack Howard and the constitutional monarchy. Tough Luck! Look at what you have reaped! We now have a crazy society where you cannot take photos of school sports events, children at the beach, or any mannner of ordinary events. I fully support Bill Henson and hope that this event may bring us back to common sense. In addition, their attack on Hollingworth has not increased support for the republic, with current polls at record lows in support. And as for changing the flag, another of the elite's obsessions, that seems to have vanished without trace.

As far as the cultural elite is concerned, it is obvious that they are and always have been contemptuous of the opinions of the people.

The only problem is that the people are contemptuous of them, and they are the ones that fill out the ballot papers.

The stupid idiots in the cultural elite have supported the election of a man who is to the right of John Howard, and even more of a populist than he was. Tough Luck! I would expect that in the next budget or two we will see a downgrading of arts funding.
Posted by plerdsus, Monday, 2 June 2008 12:58:25 PM
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Mmmm morality. Photographing pubescent girls might be art but if there are too many photos then that's sleazy and the police might get involved.

The tennis player posing for Playboy is just trailer trash, who wants to be masterbated over all around the world for $500 per nipple?

K Rudd demanding public servants work 70 per week, that is immoral. This is Workchoices by stealth and just reinforces my opinion of Howard-lite. I would expect a Prime Minister put into power through the efforts of Your Rights at Work campaign should set the example by providing decent working conditions in the country that pioneered the 8 hour day.
Posted by billie, Monday, 2 June 2008 1:27:43 PM
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Well said Mark and as with Elizabeth it was a defining statement for me also.
It was a cheap populist stunt. Showed Rudd to be not that bright.
He had already alienated his workforce.He didn't have the courage to change the culpable senior management in the AFP, ASIS, ASIO, ONA, Defence,DFAT,Immigration, Health, Energy, Agriculture and Education.
After Howard we needed leadership and vision. Sadly it appears we have a Howard clone minus the evil intent. But as far as I can see that is only thing Rudd has going for him.
Rudd is out of his depth. So busy and so little done.
From my conversations it is not only the so called cultural elite that walked from his use of the word revolting in the context of trying to define Henson's art.
It's not showing in the polls but a lot of people are now looking at him with different eyes.
He has put himself on notice at a time of mounting problems with energy, food, water and inflation.
Who would have thought Turnbull would look like he might have something going for him after only 6 months and after the dream polls that Rudd has enjoyed.
What does Rudd believe in beside born again christian sludge?
He keeps people waiting outside his door, sometimes for hours, others are on call awaiting the whim of a man who has no interest in the lives of others. Definitely not officer material. He has elevated the role of the AFP in a centralised administrative structure. And he has put offside senior ministers such as Fergusson, Smith, Wong, Albanese, Gillard and Swan.
And what are we to make of Peter Garrett and his Rudd agenda?
The idea of the 2020 Summit should have rung alarm bells, along with the decision to cut CSIRO funding and cap Solar subsidies at a time when he should have been proposing and funding an Australian Alternative Energy Institute.
For me his revolting Henson statement was the straw on the camels back.
Bruce Haigh
Posted by Bruce Haigh, Monday, 2 June 2008 1:37:51 PM
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I'm not a member of any cultural elite, but as someone who voted for Rudd as clearly the lesser of two evils, I'm not so sure now about that assessment. Certainly, I found his philistine comments about Henson's art surprisingly inept and disappointing, while his government is proving to be increasingly so in areas such as the environment and education.

At least the troops are coming home from Iraq, I suppose.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Monday, 2 June 2008 1:44:21 PM
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I think the article mostly vapid, especially where trying to conceptualize some special discourse separating children's rights from women's, etc. But I expect Kelly's future tenure and grant prospects look healthy given his general loyalty to liberalism and its sugar-daddies like Turnbull.

If Henson made no payment for the underage modelling, the likely attraction for those exploited would be the association with the nebulous "high culture" presumed by neo-liberalists to be their ideology's perhaps most precious and refined product, if not its ultimate justification. Assessed from the lawyer-filtered quotes of an underage Henson model's mother, it seems that the models' background is middle class or, at least, 'aspirationally' so. I'm sure Kelly would have seen similar unpaid transactions where aspiring academics draft works of 10,000 words or more for publication in names of profs, assoc. profs, etc., in an unofficial, corrupt process of discreet extra requirements towards the PhD, etc.

The essential factors of money, class and power make the Hollingworth case an obvious parallel to this Henson matter. The article's and respondents' use of the term "elite" is mostly confusing and misleading. Rudd is part of the elite, as was/is Howard, as was/is Hollingworth, etc. Such abused language reminds me of the silly ravings of "Professor" David Flint, a pompous and supreme self-denialist in matters of race, but very aggressive asserting his own class pretensions and culture war indulgences.

I urge the following to all you who claim to be such culturally refined, aesthetically sensitive beings: identify yourselves fully whenever you are about to deal with working class people, especially minors.
Posted by mil-observer, Monday, 2 June 2008 2:10:03 PM
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Bruce, you are getting whiney old chum. I find photographing and displaying naked 13 year old revolting because there is simply no reason not to wait until anyone can give their own consent. I have a grown daughter and three grand-daughters and you could not pay me enough to let them be photographed in this manner so they can be hung in galleries for the pretensious glitterati to wank on about. And I don't mean sexual wank, I mean the wank that rabbits on about lighting and stuff and ignores the rights of the child not to be looked at like an object.

We adult women fought a mighty battle in the 100 years of suffrage not to be seen as objects, Christine Spiteri and other Channel 9 women are suing for objectification, Mary from SBS did the same thing.

13 year old girls are not objects and it is revolting to treat them as objects and that is all Kevin Rudd said. He did just have a mighty shot at the intelligence service failures by the way, and I believe the criminals in DIAC are having to work for the first time in years.

So Bruce, your 13 year old grand-daughter will be posing nude for Henson so that every one of the so-called glamour lot can talk about the lighting and other wank and ignore the fact that the 13 year old is a human being.

All I have heard from your mob has been about poor little Bill being victimised? Did you think about the child?
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Monday, 2 June 2008 2:43:38 PM
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No public servants are working 70 hours a week, that I can guarantee and if they are it serves a good many of them right.

Public servants in DIAC and the former DIMA deported Australian's, locked up Australian's, wasted money by taking years to make refugee decisions, used false documents to cancel visas, broke the law when they cancelled other visas and generally cost the Australian public hundreds of millions by their sloth, incompetence and general ignorance of our own laws.

DFAT deported people on false documents, dumped them illegally in the wrong countries (see Following them Home by David Corlett), deported Australian's, didn't read dozens of cables about AWB giving $300 million to Saddam Hussein and stayed rigidly silent when many of them must have known they were committing crimes.

ONA, DIO and other intelligence agencies knew very well that no children were thrown into the sea, they knew there were no WMD in Iraq, that Saddam did not have a shredding machine, that David Hicks had been taken to Gitmo and Mamdouh Habib had been rendered to Egypt to be tortured and they all stayed silent except for Andrew Wilkie.

ASIO and the AFP have kidnapped citizens off the street illegally, detained them illegally, created this deluded set of control orders against people convicted of no crime and fitted up Dr Haneef while terrifying the life out of his family and colleagues.

Centrelink threw thousands of people off payments and left them penniless and homeless, made millions of mistakes in benefit assessments and have used millions to get back money for their own mistakes.

If these public servants are having to finally work with some efficiency I have not one jot of sympathy for the poor widdle diddums and think they should all be fired or suck it up.

One fraud alone cost us $35 million.
Posted by Marilyn Shepherd, Monday, 2 June 2008 2:47:01 PM
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CJ Morgan typifies those defending this pervert. He writes

'At least the troops are coming home from Iraq, I suppose.' That has as much to do with being a child abuser as has interest rates. It sounds to me the author would like to think of himself as one of the cultural elite. With that label you can sip your lattes and look at young girls and boys on the internet and call it art. The working man would be called a pervert. It is only when the next step is taken like that of the former NSW indigenous affairs minister that you are outed from this group (but still support him financially). You can just see it, Cate on the ABC warning about child abuse while all her mates study the breast and vagina of a 12 year old for artistic merits. What a group of sick cookie.
Posted by runner, Monday, 2 June 2008 3:35:59 PM
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I also agree with David Jackmanson and plerdsus. Perfectly said and correct.
Posted by Steel, Monday, 2 June 2008 4:09:30 PM
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Yes, Marilyn, it seems strange that Bruce applies such skewed perspective on state duties, priorities and public service: definitely not soldier material. With the Foreign Office's track record on abuse and exploitation of children, I thought its retirees like Bruce would have keener sense to oppose strongly even the symbolic and public expression of such nasty activity.

You must know of Alistair's fight there, Bruce, when he - with a mountain of evidence - outed the guy who became ambassador in Pnomh Penh? You must also know how the whistleblower was sacked repeatedly and vilified for his courage, and loyalty to a basic sense of right and wrong, and true public service. Oh, and the fate of the pederast living comfortably off our taxes and the people's loyalty and obedience to state? After ever-vigilant shielding by a sophist legal system, back to Pnomh Penh to head an orphanage if I'm not mistaken.

It appears to me that ex-DFAT Rudd knows exactly what he's doing, and I doubt that it's derived from any "born again christian sludge", as Bruce alleges. Read Rudd's essay in The Monthly and you can identify how seriously he follows the rationale of Bonhoeffer (and no, not Tim Costello's "me too" version of it). Rudd is classic Protestant material. I do not come from that tradition, but on such important moral issues I know that he has Catholic, Muslim, Jewish and other traditions - and most workers and soldiers - with him on this.

Oh, along with a hard core of ancient Confucianism to strengthen his conviction, especially on matters of duty to the greater good and conscientiousness in public service. Yes, make them earn their money or get out.

Just such a pity this leadership had to happen only now that the crash is well underway.
Posted by mil-observer, Monday, 2 June 2008 5:28:49 PM
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It interesting to note that many here would not consider Alan Jones,
John Laws, Janet Albrechtson, and others as part of the cultural elite.

Is it because they are all Right Wing - thus rendering anything cultural as Leftist?

Pay tell?
Posted by Rainier, Monday, 2 June 2008 5:29:24 PM
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Talk about losing perspective. I am also rolling in the aisles laughing.

Who are these so called cultural elites - can anyone join or do you have to be invited in? Unlike any other group in society it seems the 'cultural elite' are a homogenous group with no differing opinions on anything arty. :)

Your article is suggesting that this one issue alone is going to make or break Rudd. PLEeeeeeeeeeeeeeese! Is this how low we have sunk that this is one issue out of all possible issues is what will determine future voting patterns? ie. whether or not the photographing of underage children in sexually suggestive poses is Art or not? Sheeesh. Give me a break, we are talking about children here - not mature consenting adults.

I can't imagine any of the cultural elites voting in Turnbull once he is leader of the Opposition, he is cashing in on feigned intellectual hysteria.

By the time of the next election we might all be more concerned with issues of the environment, energy, the economy and how we best take care of the most disadvataged in our communities.
Posted by pelican, Monday, 2 June 2008 6:30:37 PM
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I would like to see these people do what they can to punish Rudd for his bigotry. Whether they do or not will determine whether laughing at them is justifiable.

pelican>"Give me a break, we are talking about children here - not mature consenting adults."

Both the model and her parents consented and fully support Henson and the art. They are proud of it. And they blame any damage on people like you who presume to speak for them or demonise them.
Posted by Steel, Monday, 2 June 2008 6:57:03 PM
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yet another spin machine pr article defending the right to pervert the innocence of minors ,[

Is this now the 6 th article on this topic?]

It is a cleverly written piece [ carefully preparing the reader and the ground for the expected rebuttal

Even going so far as defining the meaning of porn ,

Note non-flagging of headline to topic and the soft destractive [indefinate] ending ,
carefully designed to distract rememberance of the main body of the statement

We have the same crop of respondants responding [defending] the acts of a pervert ,
who think a 13 year old nakid child has the_legal requirments to offer informed-concent [or that a parent can give any legal title to permit the child to be photographiclly abused ]

but what broke me up ..>>The problem is here that he’s crossed an absolute line by associating himself with a crackdown on high culture itself.<<

...[noting writer is'nt saying the pervert but the pm !!]

...>>Rudd-in-these-circumstances becomes_unsupportable for a cultural and intellectual elite
for whom free speech is-everything ..<<

Note that use of elite , for whom THEIR own rights to free speech is everything ,

Its a typical proffesional pr spin damage response designed to bring up distractive visualisations and bias to make the reader things arnt as clear cut as they look
because by their word images THEY use visual imagry selected carefully
that are made to make the clear moral issue's ,look like they are not,

[no , bill and his ELite are just like you
[so dont respond thus let theAuthers double speak pretend tobe speaking for you]

..>>(that-and-grant-money, but freespeech first, please]<< ..

wow the icecream on the cake [and we missed the bitter pill under all the double speak
[ie defending a perverts right to pervert civil; morality ,

into condoning the_abuse of an under-age-child ,into acts that have a possable life long consequance ,much like the gateway affect from childModeling to nudeModeling to porn for cash to prostituting the law , then getting into the 'hardstuff commenting on politics.

READER ; read george-w-busches spokesmans boo
Posted by one under god, Monday, 2 June 2008 9:21:16 PM
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hi all,

wow what interesting posts, I should come in here more often

cultural elite ? is there such a thing
elite being usually referred to someone who is expert in their trade ?
or perceived to be expert in their trade ?

re Henson works, I did a ton of research, on his images, found many

there is no denying that some/ of his work has a sexual undertone

particularly the nude children

simply put and I am a little out of my comfort zone here

its about the children

using children for photography

posing children for photography

posing children for ones own art work

any person can say they are an artist, and photograph underage
children

what happens is that children, get posed, or conditioned to
certain ideas
and this conditioning, and or posing

creates ideas, and confusion, in minors

australia does not want a society of gamblers and pornography
of that I am sure of

and can someone tell me why I can type in teen porn brisbane
and get a heap of sites

perhaps the makers of these sites, can be promptly removed

only took them a day for Henson's works to be removed
some from the net
if it can be done with his works, it can be done with online
teen sites

JHH
Posted by JHH, Tuesday, 3 June 2008 10:47:04 AM
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That grand old "Cultural Elite" is not so old as we might imagine, and perhaps more self-deluded about the granduer of the Arts than the rest of anybody finds imaginable.

Basic fact: Kevin Rudd's power base is Church oriented not Arts, and the contemporary Arts scene, nationally, is based in the Whitlam era having transferred much of the worth of government funding, out of the religious context, and into the Arts. (meanwhile the church charities have had to scrabble around in the muck of work-for-the-dole being labelled as training, or even education, just to help patch over all the problems that are too ugly for artists to want to think about)

At the bottom line, the Religious world still has a fairly large quadrant of the Arts world within it.

Perhaps it yet remains to be seen whether more harm has been done to our society by religious weirdos like Fred Niles, or by Artists trying to parade almost any sort of trash as Art worthy of government funding.

Kevin's just up there where the real debate is, you know, that one which most folk like to ignore, because it is about how to enable individuals to accept responsiblity for social justice.

After all, if the power to built a society by adhering to real social justice outcomes, ain't in the hands of individual workers, we'd all be in the poo-pile by now, because the employers, who want to keep wages down, are just not motivated to the same degree as the rest of us.

Therefore, I hereby charge the "Cultural Elite" with having been ignoring the need to make Art real by making Art be about the real work of staying alive, rather than corrupting young girls with flattery about how good they look naked.
Posted by Curaezipirid, Tuesday, 3 June 2008 3:52:31 PM
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Culealipis>"Therefore, I hereby charge the "Cultural Elite" with having been ignoring the need to make Art real by making Art be about the real work of staying alive, rather than corrupting young girls with flattery about how good they look naked."

If art were dictated by idiots, you would have mediocre rubbish. Honestly, just shut up. Do artists tell farmers how to farm? Or economists how to do economics? Where does your presumption and arrogance come from? Last time I checked society dictating what artists produce, it was communists producing their "art for the people"...the thought that many Australians must share your opinion is greatly disturbing. All that propaganda about "the social good" and "for the good of the country" has become a frankenstein...

JHH>"australia does not want a society of gamblers and pornography
of that I am sure of"

JHH, since when was "Australia" an entity to be invoked to assert what can only be described as a totalitarian agenda? Only a communist or similar would write like that...where the hell do you people hide in society? If only normal people knew what passed for opinion here on OLO, I think they would be absolutely horrified. I really do know what they mean now when they refer to Australia's ugly (and seemingly vast), sick underbelly...I'm going to guess for a minute but I think you are all concentrated in South Australia and perhaps Queensland. Is this true?
Posted by Steel, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 1:33:21 AM
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It's OK steely, but remember: the star-shaped block goes into the star-shaped hole. Ergo "if art were dictated by idiots, you would have idiotic art" [Seems to cover the topic well enough].

Pay no attention to their rude and naughty cackling. They just don't understand, and they're really just jealous because they know your special. And some of them probably are naughty communists too, as you cleverly warned us.
Posted by mil-observer, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 7:12:54 AM
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Steel, if you are trying to charge me with being a non-artist, dictating to the REAL Artists, that Art needs to be about how life continues to exist; then perhaps you are a little mistaken about me, but I hold to my belief in what Art is.

However, rather than tell you that you ought to make your own Art be about life, you can just go ahead and be my guest to make your art tell the story of death if you prefer.
Posted by Curaezipirid, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:33:10 AM
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hi all, hi steel,
re my remark australia does not want a country of gamblers and
pornographers

perhaps I did make a broad wash here
however I live in australia and to me from personal experience
gambling, and pornography is a escalating problem here

look up Andrei Sychev, russian cadet 18 year old, who lost both his legs, fingers,
and penis due to bullying just a few years ago
this is ongoing with others, and many of them
the gov is being perceived to doing something about it
this might give you an idea of my observances

I lived next to a 28 year old gambler, his mother, her boyfriend,
his girlfriend, and three children, one of the children
was fathered by a herion addict, this in a small two bedroom
flat
he came and went with tirades and daily borrowing of 5 plus dollars
every day, many times a day, for a year
I had to listen to the emotive bullying which was highly
aggressive for all that time

and his 5 year old boy, not going to school, and who already
thought that you made money gambling
needless to say there was serious mental abuse to the kids
and physical abuse

gambling is predominant on our tv shows, and so is bullying....
gambling including sms and phone

is this not conditioning ?

and while I am at it, how come on late tv one night
they said 5 russian ladies, to ring for photos, of the nude ilk
why not 5 australian ladies, so insulting

regards JHH
Posted by JHH, Thursday, 5 June 2008 10:04:34 AM
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