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The Forum > Article Comments > Clean coal, dirty business? > Comments

Clean coal, dirty business? : Comments

By Tony Troughton-Smith, published 28/4/2008

Is it possible that coal corporations know that carbon capture and storage is not viable, but continue to promote it to maintain share prices?

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Hello ttstoo; I wish I could keep more detail in what I see and read.
It was a test run by the BBC I think that took a Prius and a BMW diesel
sedan, a mid sized model but I don't remember the number.
They did the trip from London to Geneva and the BMW was very much more
economic on fuel. So it does not even have to be a small hatch back diesel to do better than a Prius.

Toyota is said to be about to bring out a plug in version of the Prius .
I have seen a Prius that has had an extra bank of batteries which
greatly improves the electric only range, although not up to the
80 to 120 km range of battery only hatchbacks with lead acid batteries.
Lithium ion would increase that range significantly.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 7:40:56 AM
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Hi Bazz
I think I know the TV program you're talking about - I believe it's called The Drive Show or something, and I know it's broadcast in Australia. It's very entertaining, but the guys who do the show are rev-heads and buffoons, and do and say outrageous things for fun and publicity: the program could never be described as scientific or impartial.
As rev-heads, they are (or were - maybe they've changed recently) absolute Peak Oil deniers, and rail and rant against anything that might threaten their love affair with cars that make a throaty rumble when idling and a roar like a Spitfire the rest of the time. The whole idea of a car that only uses its petrol engine when it has to, and then at a constant velocity, is anathema to them! I saw the program they did on the Prius and it made my blood boil I felt it was so irresponsible - but that's the show for you. Entertaining, but not a documentary by any stretch of the imagination.
Tony
Posted by ttstoo, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 7:11:44 PM
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For anyone still following this thread, FYI Greenpeace Australia today released a report called
"False Hope: Why carbon capture and storage won't save the climate".
You can download it as a PDF file from their website here
http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/resources/reports/climate-change/false-hope-why-carbon-capture

Regards

Tony
Posted by ttstoo, Wednesday, 7 May 2008 5:23:10 AM
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Hello ttstoo;
No it was not Top Gear. I am not even certain it was
the BBC. It could have been Channel 4. I really cannot remember, but
if you look at the quoted fuel consumption for the European diesel cars
you will see figures you cannot reach with your Prius.

I will make an effort to find it again but I am not optimistic.

Cheers
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 7 May 2008 8:20:57 AM
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More links to further relevant info on this topic.

Two articles in New Matilda - An article by Chris Doran on corporate power...
http://www.newmatilda.com/2008/04/23/coal-companies-are-people-too ;
...and one by Anna Rose - a young person who attended the 2020 summit and found the climate discussion deliberately stymied by the coal industry reps:
http://www.newmatilda.com/2008/04/21/no-such-thing-bad-idea ;

And a letter to the New Scientist by Owen Jordan in which he states (but without citing references) that direct emissions from the ground during the (open cut) mining process exceed those from burning the coal, meaning that CCS would only be capturing a small percentage of the overall emissions from coal exploitation, even if it does work:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19826520.100-capturing-carbon.html

Tony
Posted by ttstoo, Wednesday, 7 May 2008 11:02:49 PM
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Bazz I fully agree that hybrids are just a stop gap measure. Either till better battery technology or hydrogen or fuel cell driven cars.

Solar cells will come down in price as we build more factories to produce them. Look at plasma and lcd TVs; they have dropped from $50k 10 years ago to below $5k today. Both crystaline and amorphous silicon substrates are made from sand so I doubt we'd run out any time soon. Again it is a matter of building more factories. Similarly installing them on a roof is not rocket science. I am not expecting they'd be installed in one year but if we're going that way we have to start somewhere and then ramp up installation.

Electrical transmission lines can be made more effiecient over long distances when using DC power.

Another way to transport geothermal energy is to use it to create hydrogen. Probably not likely in central Australia but perhaps an option for NZ and Iceland. Admittedly this is quite some time off.
Posted by gusi, Thursday, 8 May 2008 4:05:47 PM
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