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The Forum > Article Comments > Does China deserve a 'fair go'? What has the IOC achieved? > Comments

Does China deserve a 'fair go'? What has the IOC achieved? : Comments

By Arthur Thomas, published 18/4/2008

In China when the Games are over, industry will ratchet up production, pollution will worsen, the media will be muzzled and 11 new cities will be built around Beijing ...

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This is a bit off topic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2115271.stm
Use of the internet in China

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2098530.stm
Blocking foreign websites

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2073388.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2029152.stm
Closure of internet sites

http://www.china.org.cn/
China as seen by the Chinese

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2027120.stm
For a very interesting article on how the party is losing control of news because of the internet in China.

Vanilla, I suggest you Google some topics of interest in China, particularly about water and food shortages and your eyes might be opened.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Thursday, 1 May 2008 11:25:38 AM
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Romany

Do not be angry! you will get used to if you still speak for Chinese.

People in west are difficult (or not willing) to find any positive information from west medias like BBC and CNN, as their researching resources.

For example "...last month the authorities announced plans to close down thousands of unlicensed internet cafes. The government says the move was prompted by a fatal fire at a cafe in Beijing, but critics argue it is an excuse to impose further controls on the use of the net." (from BBC as VK3AUU mentioned resources)

My experienced was, the internet Cafes are asking to open to people who over 16 years old only. Photo ID with the age need to be shown in order to enter. No adults websites and contents can be viewed in Cafe. The vedio cam have to be installed properly. Police will inspect randomly. (That was being told by the owner). This "self-discipline" scheme was suggested by normal people and thousands of parents. But people like VK3AUU can read the further controls on the use of the net from this policy. I have to say they are genius.
Posted by NathanC, Thursday, 1 May 2008 6:26:22 PM
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As no response has been forthcoming to my previous post I decided to illustrate the point of what I have been saying throughout this thread and others.

Lets start with the words of John Swinton, former Chief of Staff to the New York Times back in 1953: "The business of the New York journalist is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify." Years later this was backed up by John Stockwell, former CIA official and author who stated: "The owners of the Washington Post long ago acknowledged that the Post is the governments voice to the people..."

So far we have China and USA state controlled media just about level pegging.

Now, it seems that this precedent has been continued with contemporary reports that "people using CIA and FBI computers have edited entries in the online encyclopedia Wikipedia on topics including the Iraq war and Guantanamo prison, according to a new tracing program." ( Who’s Editing Wikipedia – Diebold, The CIA, A Campaign John Borland, Wired, 8/2007)
http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/08/wiki_tracker

As Edward Zehr once said: "I wouldn’t call it fascism exactly, but [an American] political system, nominally controlled by an irresponsible, dumbed down electorate who are manipulated by dishonest, cynical, controlled mass media that dispense the propaganda of a corrupt political establishment can hardly be described as democracy either."

For every article posted to damn China it is possible to counter with those damning America: human rights violation, lack of democratic processes, corruption, pollution scandals, blocking news and environmental devastation. It paints a picture of a country who deserves boycotts, protests , and vilification until they see things our way doesn’t it? For anyone who has never been to North America it sounds just like...well...China.

So, what does this prove? I consider Marcus Aurelius said it best almost 2,000 years ago:-

"The opinion of 10,000men(sic) is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject"
Posted by Romany, Thursday, 1 May 2008 8:33:45 PM
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Romany

A late response. Currently enroute earning a living and not sitting 24/7 on OLO. This self created profile emerges from your comments on China relevant articles and prompted my response that included describing the opportunities for journalists and teachers with appropriate qualifications and expertise and the possible route in which such job opportunities could take them.

To a surfer of China info your recent numerous comments suggest a person who's in depth knowledge of China supports your right to comment and criticise. Your statement "I teach journalism" claims internationally recognized qualifications in journalism. No mention of living in China and your pseudonym suggests a European, inviting the comment "lecturing in journalism". There is a difference between teaching journalism and lecturing in journalism? Lock that in with your claim of "plenty of life experience in the world's trouble spots" suggests an experienced journalist qualified to visit and report on world trouble spots - not a responsibility to be taken lightly nor tasked to a novice by any media company. Impressive on one's CV.

Your claims to "plenty of life experience in the world's trouble spots" (not one but several) also suggests an adventurous and readily adaptable person travelling through many countries, hence my reference to Romany, the language of the gypsies travelling through foreign lands.

Inconsistencies and confusion. You quickly defend China against criticism and criticize and deride comment by others. Then without first taking the time to check the accuracy of such material you refer to rules of academic debate. Challenged on this profile you respond with "I do not, nor have I ever claimed extensive experience" in China. Again, "I do not work as a journalist here." Based on those two admissions alone, just what is your experience, motive and right to criticise this China material?

Continued
Posted by expat China Journo, Wednesday, 7 May 2008 1:23:54 PM
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Continuing

You made no return comment on key issues making up the major portion of my comment such as the Central Propaganda Department or on those who have suffered under its oppressive measures. No mention of the Great Famine and its impact on ordinary Chinese and further massive loss of life from dam collapses. Nor of internet and media censorship and action against those who speak out. Are we to believe that you really refuse to accept that these happened or exist?

Even high school students are aware of the blatant credibility problems of CIA reporting and some US media. Why do you have a problem with highlighting their counterparts and abuse in China? Your fixation with spooks and conspiracies and juvenile facetious comment is not professional journalism.

To dish it out and expect all feelgood responses, first remove doubt and confusion and read back through ALL your previous work. I smiled at one suggestion for you that read "digging for facts is better exercise than jumping to conclusions". Only too true when you go back and read your uninformed and emotional diatribe criticising Arthur previous articles. No apology to Arthur? What comes around etc.. In the real world relying on emotion and uninformed criticism without due research only invites just criticism from your peers.

OLO history is irrelevant. The measure of ones work is originality, integrity, balance and quality, not association, number of articles, comments, claimed qualifications, sensationalism or endless use of borrowed quotations of others. Try originality and doing your own non selective in depth research. There is a big difference between the work of wannabe armchair academics and those professionals on the ground.

Apologies unnecessary, you summed it up all by yourself with the quotation in your own last paragraph.

Expat China Journo
Posted by expat China Journo, Wednesday, 7 May 2008 1:31:20 PM
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Expat Journo,

No, this is only my third year in China so of course my knowledge cannot claim to be as extensive as those who have lived here a lifetime.

Yes, I am a qualified journalist who has lived and worked extensively in South Africa and Papua New Guinea as well as spending time in other countries: my father's work (and no I'm not going to be asked to account for him as well!) was diplomatic and necessitated that I have spent my entire life in the Far and Middle East as well as travelling extensively.

I was asked to join the faculty of a University in China where I teach so my primary function here is education but I still do free-lance work (I am sure I explained this earlier). If my CV is of such importance I will willingly give permission to Graham Young or Susan Prior to confirm the above.

This is now the second or third time you have made remarks about "conspiracy theories" and my obsession with them. Please point out where I have demonstrated my adherence to, let alone and obsession with, such theories? Perhaps you are referring to a post directed to the author where I said that those who don't provide sources etc. laid themselves open to such flights of fancy? It was, in fact, you who came up with the idea that I was involved in machiavellian pursuits.

You misrepresent me entirely when you claim that I consider I know better than others but you show agreement when you give advice about research: that was indeed the sole point I was making and have continued to make on this subject. Rather a simple one really and certainly not worth all the caustic remarks and bluster you have directed at me.

I do not rail or engage in diatribes or even rant as you insist I have done to Arthur. I rather think those who cannot confine their remarks concisely within a 350 word framework more guilty of ranting than I, however.
Posted by Romany, Friday, 9 May 2008 1:01:21 AM
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