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The Forum > Article Comments > Set traps for rats in the ranks > Comments

Set traps for rats in the ranks : Comments

By Chris Berg, published 6/3/2008

Wollongong council has inadvertently highlighted the deep problems with local government administration across the country.

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I'm afraid Fester that we'll have to disagree on this. In case you hadn't noticed, local government has precisely the same public accountability as state government, ie facing regular elections. Perhaps you might explain how that works OK for state govt but not for local?

The NSW planning system is being emasculated at the behest of (and for the benefit of) the development industry. Take a look at what's happening to the NSW Heritage Office. Sartor has pre-empted an enquiry and has dismembered it http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/heritage-advisers-will-take-on-development-under-officeamalgamation/2008/02/18/1203190740575.html

I can't say I'd be particularly sorry if "the developers are suffering", but where's your proof? Is Harry Triguboff driving a Lada? My wife's Mirvac shares are doing pretty well. Seems to me that if developers were really suffering they wouldn't have the money to bribe the legislators.

As for informing myself on this issue, I put a submission in to the Federal Govt Productivity Commission enquiry into heritage. Having read a fair swag of the submissions, I feel I am well acquainted with the issues and reading PR guff from an industry ginger group is more than I can stomach at the moment. Don't complain about my argument not having substance unless you can mount one of your own (preferably backed up with some links).
Posted by Johnj, Thursday, 6 March 2008 9:47:39 PM
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it's not a pity, rj, it's a consequence of people like you being willing to submit to parliamentary rule.

"you get the government you deserve" is literally true. the crooked and incompetent buffoons who currently run nsw wales are the mirror image of the oz electorate: ignorant, flaccid, passive: walking targets for the grifters of the political parties.

the californians fired a governor they didn't like recently, and refused to pass referenda his replacement put before them. right or wrong, they at least are nobodies mugs.

ozzies, on the other hands, are anybodies mugs.
Posted by DEMOS, Friday, 7 March 2008 7:15:25 AM
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If wealth and tax records were in the public domain racketeers would find it harder to mask their ill-gotten gains.
Posted by cannonfodder, Friday, 7 March 2008 7:17:08 AM
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JohnJ

"In case you hadn't noticed, local government has precisely the same public accountability as state government, ie facing regular elections. Perhaps you might explain how that works OK for state govt but not for local?"

It's the same for both. If a State Government exhibited the same endemic corruption and/or incompetence as the Wollongong Council, then I would imagine it would also face dismissal, as would a Federal Government. You have heard of "the dismissal" haven't you? Fortunately Australia's democracy contains provisions to deal with crises when elected governments fail.

"The NSW planning system is being emasculated at the behest of (and for the benefit of) the development industry."

I would suggest that it has been quite the opposite. Placing severe development restrictions on landholders greatly restricts supply. And being able to selectively and secretively bend the rules lends itself to some very profitable corruption.

The supply of housing is now at crisis point, and has been exacerbated by the federal government's high immigration policy. The need for development is so great that it is now more profitable for developers to compete in an open market with fewer development restrictions than it is to deal with corrupt councilors.

"I can't say I'd be particularly sorry if "the developers are suffering", but where's your proof?"

How uncharitable, JohnJ. I would rather judge people by who they are, not by what they are. The number of managed funds in trouble at present is one indicator that things are getting tough for the developers. But the ones I feel really sorry for are the millions of Australians facing housing stress. It would be a shame to exacerbate that stress because of a perverted hatred of property developers, wouldn't it?

"Don't complain about my argument not having substance unless you can mount one of your own (preferably backed up with some links)."

In all fairness JohnJ, I wouldn't describe your rant against developers and the NSW Labor right as constituting an argument. But I should be happy to continue the dialogue on the mechanism of the corruption and how it may be reduced.
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 8 March 2008 8:49:01 AM
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Rant, Fester? Well, perhaps...

If the "supply of housing is now at crisis point", why are housing prices still falling in south-west Sydney? http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,25479,23309209-14327,00.html I don't know that many of those who already have negative equity would thank you for depressing prices further. I will agree that well-located property is another story, but your analysis is too simplistic.

Property trusts? The problems of Centro are related to an ill-judged expansion in the US, imprudent borrowing, poor returns on investment and the collapse of US credit market, ie incompetence. Just like Multiplex at Wembley Stadium. http://www.smh.com.au/news/money/the-trouble-with-property/2008/03/03/1204402361517.html Well-run property and construction stocks have fared no worse than other stocks in the last few months.

I reject the notion that this is a problem exclusive to local government. For example Kerry Keogh, the corrupt General Manager of Strathfield Council, was given a job on the State Government's Parramatta Road Taskforce (until the Strathfield ICAC hearing) and Joe Scimone went to work for his old mate Joe Tripodi at NSW Maritime (until the Wollongong ICAC hearing). Keogh, incidentally (or perhaps not), was former chief of staff of ALP minister Ross Free. In the US they call this the "revolving door" http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Government-industry_revolving_door Join the dots Fester and tell me that there isn't a problem here...

I don't particularly hate property developers Fester, I hate corruption. Rewarding the corrupt by "reforming" (ie watering down) the current planning system doesn't look like much of a solution to me. I'm sure the ICAC will come up with some solutions, but I have little faith in the willingness of the ALP to implement them. In 2002 the ICAC found that caucusing made "a mockery of the concept of open Council and transparent decision making" http://www.icac.nsw.gov.au/files/html/pub2_64cp.htm Noticed the ALP caucusing any less since then? Me neither.
Posted by Johnj, Saturday, 8 March 2008 4:33:53 PM
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JohnJ

"If the "supply of housing is now at crisis point", why are housing prices still falling in south-west Sydney?"

That might be because housing is so unaffordable at present. But what happens when people cannot afford to buy? That's right, they rent a house or caravan, or live under a bridge or something. And what does that do to rents? Yes, they go up.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/02/15/1202760599501.html

Obviously you are quite ignorant of the fact that house prices can fall under tightening supply conditions.

"I don't know that many of those who already have negative equity would thank you for depressing prices further."

If they are looking for a scapegoat I might be so priviliged, but I think it better to blame those responsible for the mess. The comment also makes me wonder whether you think that rising property values benefit the Australian economy?

"Property trusts?"

No, managed funds. They provide the capital to fund developers.

"I don't particularly hate property developers Fester, I hate corruption. Rewarding the corrupt by "reforming" (ie watering down) the current planning system doesn't look like much of a solution to me."

Would supplying drug addicts with heroin reward drug dealers? Corruption has two sides, and you only seem to see one of them here. Wouldn't the corrupt, bribe-taking councilors lose out? Wouldn't honest, hard working developers be given a fair go? Wouldn't it be good for everyone to be on a level playing field instead of a severely restricted system where councilors can bend the rules for their bribe buddies without being accountable?

I hate corruption also, and would like to see a great deal more transparency in the development process. I would also like to see an estimate of the per capita infrastructure costs for an increasing population. I suspect that this cost more than offsets the profits derived by property developers. I am dubious of the claim that high immigration is beneficial to Australia. In fact, I think it more a driver of corruption.
Posted by Fester, Sunday, 9 March 2008 8:42:05 AM
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