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The Forum > Article Comments > The religious politics of puritan purity > Comments

The religious politics of puritan purity : Comments

By Mark Bahnisch, published 17/1/2008

There may be legitimate issues concerning the sexualisation of children, but often the arguments are over-generalised predictions of imminent doom.

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Mark, thanks for the info about purity balls - positively chilling. The description makes me feel like I've walked into a bad movie where the father whose daughter has just been raped doesn't stop and see what she wants or needs, but charges off (accompanied by any other male relatives hanging about) with his shotgun over his shoulder. Anybody who thinks rape wasn't traditionally a property crime is kidding themselves.

I presume you didn't mean to suggest that the people who are expressing concern about the sexualisation of young girls through the media believe that those girls' sexuality belongs to their parents. The point is kind of that girls of the ages concerned wouldn't normally have *any* kind of sexuality, yet they are being done up in trappings normally associated with sex.

Could you please provide some references for writings on the sexualisation of girls that contain 'a style of argument and writing which combines over-generalisation with dire predictions of imminent doom'?

It will be interesting to see if the list includes any part of the Australia Institute's report on the issue.
Posted by Lizzie H, Thursday, 17 January 2008 5:35:41 PM
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Great article, Mark.

My concerns about the increasing sexualisation of society (not just children) is not so much the content, but its sheer weight, volume and pervasiveness in the public domain. Too much of anything automatically creates a Law of Diminishing Returns. Quite possibly, a self-regulation mechanism may kick in over time, rendering any form of official censorship or regulation unnecessary. At least, I hope so.
Posted by SJF, Thursday, 17 January 2008 5:56:10 PM
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"There’s no doubt that there are legitimate issues concerning the sexualisation of children..."

Not children -- girls. No-one seems to be concerned abour boys' precocious development of their sexuality because, apparently, that is what boys are "meant" to do.

Great article Mark.
Posted by Othello Cat, Thursday, 17 January 2008 7:16:17 PM
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The authors attempts to demonize those who want what is best for their children is atrocious. I for one will be thrilled if my children choose the moral path of showing a little self control and waiting for their life long partner instead of using others for their own gratification as many if not most do today. The deniers who see this form of gratification as harmless will no doubt scoff at the idea of purity while remaining enslaved to their own lusts. I would rather the religous politics of purity than the secular humanist irreligous policies of lust and enslavement.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 17 January 2008 7:22:26 PM
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runner, how thrilled will you be for an offspring suffering through an STD or unplanned pregnancy (or an abortion done in secret) because they could not talk to parents about alternatives?

Be thrilled if your children choose for themselves a "moral" path but also remember that human nature and hormones have a way of overtaking the best of intentions (especially when those intentions are imposed from outside). Is there a way to say - "here are the risks of early sexual experimentation, I'd prefer you not to go there, my god would prefer you not to go there but if you do here is how to minimise the chances of turning it into something far bigger."

The line between preparing someone for a possibility and endorsing that possibility is not always easy but it's a line we must tread if we care for our kids. Encourage abstenance but make sure your kids know that they have support if thats not how their experience goes.

If a parent is to insistant on a particular sexual morality kids are left without the ability to talk to that parent when thats not how things turn out.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 17 January 2008 8:33:36 PM
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" remember that human nature and hormones have a way of overtaking the best of intentions "
herein lies the mantra of modern life.

Personally, I was never presented with an alternative to just 'giving it up and hoping for the best'.
My earlier sexual experience spent in 'relationship' (prior to my actual, late marriage) was overall a 'lesson' in dead ends and wasted opportunities.
I really can't get a positive spin on it, apart from 'spending time'!
I would have appreciated, from my left-leaning family, a better understanding of the benefits of a firmer morality...and of the modern human male.
Sex - and to some extent women - remain a commodity in the eyes of the culturally attuned man, who clings to a teenagers' view of sexual life until just past the physical prime.
The social confusion surrounding marriage remains a key tool for men to delay commitment until the woman is experiencing actual physical/mental anguish in relation to children and her place in the world.
Human connection can be infinitely rich and deep...but by ignoring the most refined aspects of sexual expression culturally, we may well be providing our children with an existential perspective, where every step towards intimacy must be separately negotiated.
This is the opposite of community.
Posted by floatinglili, Thursday, 17 January 2008 9:22:27 PM
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Robert

I am fairly close to actually agreeing with you. I have no doubt at the end of the day that once a child is old enough and has been informed of consequences that they have to make their own choices. The surrendering attitude believing they are going to be immoral anyway (normally by people who gave in themselves) does not have to be the norm. I know a number of well adjusted kids at uni who live very 'normal' lives without having to degrade themselves. No doubt these kids must get up the authors nose.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 17 January 2008 11:09:36 PM
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Surprise. surprise we read of a young girl of 5 in Tasmania being sexually molested by 2 young boys straight after sex education classes. The educators can be really proud they did such as great job for this girl. More fruit of secular humanism.
Posted by runner, Friday, 18 January 2008 11:23:14 PM
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Wow Runner!

I bet you raced onto OLO to announce that one.

So how many times has sex education resulted in rape now? One?

Compare that to the amount of unwanted pregnancies that you're so staunchly against aborting, and your messy logic just doesn't add up.

Oh that's right, a belief in God's word is all we're supposed to need in order to remain pure. Well gee, I can see how that works with all the perverted Pastors and Priests out there.

What's that? They're not really following the teachings of Christ?

Well perhaps the school boys weren't really following the lessons of the teachers giving sex education lessons too...
Posted by AJ Philips, Friday, 18 January 2008 11:53:14 PM
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runner, I guess the issue I have there, is that your perception of secularism appears to be that promiscuity is good.

That's not it at all. Secularism is about letting people be responsible enough to make their own choices - something, at least in part, you agree with.

It is advertisers and elements of popular culture that drive a message of underage sex and so forth.

The irony is, that secularism is about the only framework that is accepting of multiple faiths. We couldn't have a purely christian government that gave due consideration to other religions.

Secularism is the tradeoff. I don't want a christian government, but presumably, you don't want a muslim one. The agreement, is to live and let live.

So I wholeheartedly concur with R0bert's earlier assessment - that the best option is to tell teenagers you believe they shouldn't engage in underage sex - but you DO need to provide proper sex education to avoid STDs. This is why I find your insinuation about sex ed very damaging.

Another irony here, is that countries that have permissive abortion laws and extensive sex education, have far less abortions.

The statistics have proved that conclusively - so if you're genuine in your desire to have kids avoid things like STDs and abortions, you'd be pretty damn keen on sex education, even though it doesn't fit the typical conservative christian mould.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Saturday, 19 January 2008 1:19:15 PM
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TRTL

you write
' I guess the issue I have there, is that your perception of secularism appears to be that promiscuity is good.'
I don't think that their is any doubt that the more secular a nation becomes the more promiscuity occurs whether intentionally or not. That is why many secular people want their children educated in a 'Christian' context. I have no doubt the Tasmanian incident is not an isolated case.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 19 January 2008 1:50:41 PM
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Runner,

<<I don't think that their is any doubt that the more secular a nation becomes the more promiscuity occurs whether intentionally or not.>>

Or could it just be that it's more out in the open now than it used to be?

According to your logic, it would be reasonable to argue that the more Christian a nation becomes, the more hidden and under-wraps rape and pedophilia are, and that it becomes harder for someone to report it – just like the good ol' days.

Actually, now that I think about it, that theory could be backed-up with many past (and even present) examples.

Hmmm... Funny you've never mentioned the links along this line though...

<<That is why many secular people want their children educated in a 'Christian' context. I have no doubt the Tasmanian incident is not an isolated case.>>

Could you point me to some sort of reference, or some statements from 'Secular Humanists' saying that the reason they're sending their children to private schools is because of the 'moral' foundations they provide? Or is this just something you're assuming, as you do with every other one of your arguments?

I would argue that the reason for increasing enrollments into private school education is because people these days generally have more money to spend than they used to, and that private schools are chosen because of their good 'academic' reputation – not 'theological'.

In fact, of all the 'Secular Humanist' parents that I've ever known to send their kids to a private school, did so 'despite' the religious education, not 'because of' it.
Posted by AJ Philips, Saturday, 19 January 2008 3:22:56 PM
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runner I've not thought of an analogy that really fits. About the closest I can come up with a moment is that it's a bit like having a defense force even if you intend to do your best to avoid going to war.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Saturday, 19 January 2008 6:57:39 PM
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AJ Philips

A common thread from a number of non Christians sending their kids to private school is that they want their kids growing up with a better morality that what is taught or not taught at most State schools. I am pleased that your moral relativism does not come into view when talking about child abuse. At least we agree on that absolute!
Posted by runner, Sunday, 20 January 2008 1:51:36 PM
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