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The Forum > Article Comments > Good parent, bad parent: private school, public school > Comments

Good parent, bad parent: private school, public school : Comments

By Leslie Cannold and Jane Caro, published 30/11/2007

When the last middle class family leaves the system, Australia will have settled for public education that provides a 'reasonable safety net' for the poor.

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My son speaks loyally of his state high school in Brisbane. He is a high achiever academically, and although the school isn't perfect, they offer a more challenging classes in math, english and science for the students who consistently perform at a high standard. I've asked my son if he would like to try for a scholarship for senior at a private school, but he really is so happy at this state school, I am not inclined to rock the boat. It is a relatively small school, but they have become national champions at volleyball. The school looks a little bit daggy, but it's not bad. The uniform is not flash in my judgement, but it's perfectly adequate for sweaty teenagers. We are an academically inclined family, and I think because of this, we felt that we could trust our kids to do well in a state school. We put a lot of effort into encouraging reading, numeracy and creativity when they were very small, and I have to say, that really pays dividends. It's hard for any school to make up for a deficiency in early learning. I say, go wild on encouraging them and fostering creative learning when they are little, then unleash them into any reasonably good school. This is not to say some extra funding for state schools isn't needed. As for bullies, they are everywhere. The upper middle class ones in my opinion can be worse, as they have a cloak of respectablity. The one nasty bullying incident at my son's school? Prompt expulsion.
Posted by Miss Bennet, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 11:56:12 PM
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Nice timing: the 2006 PISA results released today once again show that any claims that private ownership of schooling produces better results don’t stack up.

As usual the RAW data shows a private school advantage, created by the advantages the kids bring to school each day. But when the socio-economic background of students and schools was taken into account, public schools then had an advantage over private schools, on average across OECD countries.

Not a bad effort for schools variously categorized by ranters in this blog as “run by teachers unions and feminists” or a “dismal failure” or “very politicized” or “diabolical
Posted by bunyip, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 10:12:18 AM
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Bunyip,
The fact that you call other people “ranters” obviously means that you are very articulate and well educated.

The PISA results do not highlight that girls marks have only improved slightly in 30 years, while boys marks are gradually declining, according to benchmark tests.

The decline in boy’s marks appears to be mostly associated with a lack of interest by the teachers, with a considerable number of teachers now calling themselves feminist.

General observations have been that mothers and fathers sending their children to private schools know that private schools often have less facilities than public schools, but the mothers and fathers are not interested in having their children in a public school where the mothers and fathers have no say about what occurs in that school.

The mothers and fathers are not interested in turning their children over to a system that is basically closed to the mothers and fathers.
Posted by HRS, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 11:19:07 AM
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Bunyip,

The PISA results did not include results for Australia in the comparison.

However, the OECD results include many Asian countries where the schooling model is very different and in fact looking at the compensators indicate that many independent schools come from sub economic areas.

In comparitive countries such as the UK the USA and Canada, (and from Victoria) the results from independent schools are significantly better, and even the fudge factor to compensate for the socio economic location of the school and pupils does not completely negate this factor.

The end result is that if you send your child to a good school in a good area you can expect better results.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 1:42:50 PM
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In my experience families send their children to fee paying schools to improve their chances of university entrance. In the last decade some friends have moved girls from one expensive private school that said they wouldn't finish year 12 to even more expensive private schools where the girls shone and gained HECS place university entrance to Melbourne University.

Just because the school gouges you for $20,000+ per year is no guarantee that they are providing the best education for your child. If you are paying school fees and hearing a constant whine then re evaluate the school.

You are not entitled to have your school fees subsidised by the grateful taxpayer who pays for government schools already.
Posted by billie, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 2:18:14 PM
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You may be “Shadow Minister” but you are much like the student who doesn’t like the results of the test….. so they blame the test.

Give me the results of corroborated research which supports what you are saying.

You mentioned the USA, but the PISA conclusion is strongly supported by research using NAEP maths data in that country. Once again, when all factors (such as family background, the aggregating of advantaged students together etc) are considered there is no private advantage.
Even the LSAY studies (by ACER) in Australia couldn’t find any significant private advantage.

It isn’t good enough for you to dismiss properly grounded research as some kind of “fudge factor”. You have to do better than that.

If there is any “fudging” it is the engineering by schools (sometimes public as well) of their student enrolment to give themselves a higher ‘results’ profile.
Posted by bunyip, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 2:29:48 PM
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