The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Muslims don't need think tanks to say what's on their mind > Comments

Muslims don't need think tanks to say what's on their mind : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 24/10/2007

When it comes to Islam and/or national security, these days just about anyone can pass themselves off as an expert.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
On balance, I think the answer is the second one: muslims are "just a security risk and cultural menace to be managed"
Posted by Sancho, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 9:53:12 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
We are fortunate to have articulate and calm Australian Muslim commentators like Irfan Yusuf and Waleed Ali to counter the prejudiced propaganda of people like Gerard Henderson. Irfan's forensic piece should be essential reading for anyone with a serious interest stabilising the integration of Muslim communities in Australian society. We must get past the view that Muslims are primarily "a national security risk to be managed" - it is a foolish and inflammatory view. No doubt there will now be dozens of rebuttals - this topic always brings large numbers of Islamophobes out of the woodwork.

Tony Kevin
Posted by tonykevin 1, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 10:57:31 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yes indeed Tony Kevin, while we await the arrival of the 'usual suspects', thanks once again to Irfan Yusuf for consistently presenting a reasonable and conciliatory Australia Muslim perspective on some of the propaganda dished up by self-styled 'experts' like lunar right mouthpiece Gerard Henderson.

Not only did Henderson apparently fail to consult actual Muslims before making his inflammatory 'assessment', but he also seems decidedly out of step with the approach taken by real experts like Mick Keelty, head of the AFP:

"'If you want to marginalise the Islamic community, label them all terrorists.

'I mean, what we've got to do is just be guarded in our language and don't marginalise or isolate people through the language we use.'"

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/i-knew-haneef-case-wasnt-strong-keelty/2007/10/23/1192941058015.html
Posted by CJ Morgan, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 11:26:31 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Of course, it's not just Henderson that is worthy of condemnation.

There's also the people who pay him to write such nonsense.
Posted by Lev, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 11:31:14 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
So Irfan, what exactly is the point of your rant? Is it to expose the sloppy scholarship and credentials of Gerard Henderson or to debate his opinions?
Don’t you think we have the critical faculties to make up our own mind on his methodology and expertise? Do we need you to tell us that we should not believe everything we read?
Since when has truth been the sole property of experts and people with impeccable credentials? Truth can come from any source and denigrating a person because they do not live up to your expectations of what makes for good writing does nothing for your own integrity. Debates on these issues should be open to all and not just those deemed to be experts. If you really want to solve the problems associated with Muslim integration you will be open to the truth wherever you may find it. If you are not then we can only presume you are trying to protect your own personal agenda.

As for the issue of Hilali, the Muslim community have to take responsibility for the fact that he is their leader or their spokesman or whatever. We all have to take responsibility for the fact that John Howard is Prime Minister even if we do not agree with the things he says and does. Even if we did not vote for him we are responsible for the system of government that put him into power. In the same way Muslim people have to take responsibility for the structures that result in Hilali being seen as the spokesman for their community.
Posted by phanto, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 1:56:42 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Irfy

Hmmm - your style in this article is interesting.

While someone of Henderson's stoopage deserves a good nailing I sense that you pusheth your own claims to expertise. Hence:

"... my criticisms had been published in The Canberra Times, The Daily Telegraph, The New Zealand Herald, Christchurch's The Press, Wellington's The Dominion-Post, Crikey, AltMuslim.com and NewMatilda.com."

Ya heart is still in the right place but.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 4:29:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Nor Christians need the HUMBUG and SUBTERFUGE of Irfan to know what is in Muslim minds.
http://kotzabasis2.wordpress.com
Posted by Themistocles, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 5:28:12 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
'Debates on these issues should be open to all and not just those deemed to be experts.'

Absolutely not! What would be the point of the debate, other than for the non-expert representatives to sabotage the 'degate' with their own racist agenda.
Posted by Liz, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 8:27:08 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Well I don't need any experts to tell me what I already know- that suicide bombing or terrorist attacks are in fact a form of ethnic cleansing.
Posted by sharkfin, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 9:36:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Irfan said:

[To link 300,000-odd Australians who tick the Muslim box on their census forms to national security concerns is inflammatory to say the least.]

I quite agree with that.

However, targeting sedicous groups like Hizb Ut Tahrir and highlighting them as a danger is very legitimate.

In fact it is a responsiblity. Sadly, when one criticizes such radical groups, the usual suspects drool at another opportunity to misrepresent such criticism and claim 'you call all muslims evil'....

I don't see too many 'right wingers' crying or whining when they are repeatedly mentioned with utter bile by lefties here... Why not berate and rebuke those leftoids for 'smearing all right wingers' ?
"Tarring all conservatives with the same evil brush".

Come come.. a bit of consistency would be nice.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 11:07:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Muslims cannot even agree upon what they believe,how would a Kaffur know?Hilali was criticised by a sparse few but there was no great calamity of objection.The reality is that Halali still has a lot of support.Why would hundreds turn up to his sermons and laugh hilariously at his obscene jibes of infidels?

Take succor with a grain of salt from your religions,since they were invented by man to control man.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 25 October 2007 6:05:52 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Think tanks are essentially right wing groups that are set up for propaganda and economic interests. Their brief by the politicians, is a ploy to give some fig leaf of creditability to often criminal enterprises and reactionary ends. We are told, they are staffed by 'very brilliant people with smart ideas and business savy.' Their task also, is to formulate solutions that distract attention away from what the politicians are doing - to divert attention and pressure outwards. They often act as safety valves that channel steam and veil the real intentions at hand. The major points of the white Australian policy by the Labor Party was formulated with this in mind and to scapegoat immigrants for all the ills of society; often to blame immigrants precisely for what the politicians were implementing. As well, to divide and emasculate workers.
A well known ploy has been to scapegoat immigrants and declare them "illegal" even if fleeing from brutal murderous regimes and incarcerate them. In contrast, many natzi's including alleged war criminals were taken in to Aust. and given substantial favored treatment after the second World War right up till the 1990's. Some were given new identities.
The center of much of the worlds attention today is the criminal war, plunder and rape of Iraq. The latest figures are estimates of 1.2 million deaths and 4 million refugees. Those figures well and truly pass the population of Sydney or Melbourne. The figures do not include the medical trade sanctions placed on Iraq in the 1980 and early 1990's so that disease would spread. The vilification of Muslims is bound up with new murderous plans to dominate and plunder major areas of the Middle East and oil; so that people can accept multi- millioned casualties in criminal wars. Workers are the same globally and their need is unite internationally rejecting the straitjacket of economic nationalalism, exclusion, and seperation.
Posted by johncee1945, Thursday, 25 October 2007 11:08:02 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Muslims have been in Australian society since the earliest days - Afghanis and their camels were in the forefront of opening up the interior; and in many cases their descendants are prominent members of our community. I'm sure many mosques date back to the 19th century.

Teaching comparative religions at schools would go a long way for the new generation to understand Islam - and the different strains within it. To view all Muslims as potential terrorists is ludicrous and terribly unfair. I had the fortune to know Muslims who were extremely erudite, gentle and warm.

It is understandable for any community to go on the defensive when attacked; hence, we did not hear enough from Muslims when a couple of their religious leaders made offensive remarks. However, the comments of all religious leaders, whatever their creed, should be open to debate when they make strong comments about aspects of the society in which they live.

National security is essential. Perhaps Muslims should set up a Think Tank of their own to address issues of national security, public perceptions, and other issues, and advise our government. This would indeed change many misconceptions of them held in the wider society
Posted by Danielle, Thursday, 25 October 2007 4:30:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Johncee

Still pushing the Marxist message? Somethinq very quixotic about modern day Marxists. One would think that with the TOTAL failure of marixsm/socialism/ no one would be stupid enough to wave the red banner anymore.

Bad memories of the NCC? “Think tanks are essentially right wing groups”? It seems everyone is right wing compared to you including those class traitors, the ALP.

Karl Marx wasn’t a genius, he was a fantasist with a thin grip on reality.

There are so many references to ‘they’ in your posts it makes me wonder if you are a shut-in. Do you meet any real people who aren’t being manipulated by the fascist state? Seems to me not many.

So the CSIRO, the Melbourne Institute, ACOSS and the CWA are all the same, right wing fig leafs?

The white Australia policy was a bipartisan pillar of Australian public policy for many years, blaming the labour party is gormless.

Anyone who avoids going through the established channels for migration is Illegal. Whether it is later found that they are a bona-fide refugee they have broken the law and should be held responsible. Many of the brutal muderous regimes people are fleeing have been brought low by their contact with the Sino/Soviets and their client states apparatus.

Who exactly are these alleged Nazis who were given preferential treatment in Australia? Do you have names or more communist innuendo.

You say “the medical trade sanctions placed on Iraq … so that disease would spread.” Yet it was the lunatic-left who were squealing for sanctions to be given more time to work. And the sanctions were adopted by the UN and were passed by the two communist heavyweights China and Russia. The pitiful pretence that the plan was to wipe out the Iraqi people through disease beggars belief.

Good luck trying to convert Muslim workers with your heathen message. Although, a read through you posts does summon up images of Revelations with all the plunder and pestilence and greed and destruction. Very entertaining but unfortunately just as fictional.

Wakeup Johncee, the war's over, you lost.
Posted by Paul.L, Thursday, 25 October 2007 9:47:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yet another "marginalising" post from another Muslim. I thought it was too good to last.
We used to call the Poms whingers but that position has been overtaken by Irfan.
If this country doesn't suit, you do not have to live in it you know.Now back to my nazi armchair.
Posted by mickijo, Saturday, 27 October 2007 1:52:25 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy