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The Forum > Article Comments > Entitled to sympathy but not to an apology > Comments

Entitled to sympathy but not to an apology : Comments

By Brian Holden, published 6/7/2007

Nobody is to blame for the sad state of the Aboriginal people. It just happened.

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Oliver,

re:
" ... socio-anthropologist, Harry Trandis, suggests, personality is a product of culture and culture a product of ecology. Where the culture is out of touch with the environment [laws of ecology, if you will, my words, e.g, adapt of else], it is at risk."

Perhaps you can provide me with a key publication of Harry Triandis. What I found, of his eminent work, after a brief search, does not allow me to draw the same conclusions as you seem to draw.

I also do not understand how you apply these still-unstated laws of ecology so as to conclude which cultures and/or communities may be doomed as a result of being "out of touch" with the environment. What necessary and sufficient attributes would a community need to be "in touch"?

You seem to pass judgement on un-named "Aboriginal elders" on the basis of facts, assumptions and opinions which, for me, need more clarification. I'm hoping you have the patience to indulge me with further explanation.
Posted by Sir Vivor, Saturday, 21 July 2007 3:22:47 PM
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Oliver, "One can be the world’s greatest runner, but that does not help when one cannot swim and thte boat is sinking in the middle of the Pacific."

Bit late to be trying to convince the poor bugger he's a champeen with the ol' Oz crawl when he's up to his armpits in sharks and never been closer to the ocean than lake Mungo. Itself dry for the last 20,000 years. :-)

To abuse an old analogy; we've been giving them fish for 200 years rather than teaching them to fish for themselves, and now at this date we're wondering why they aren't professional deep sea fishermen like the rest of us(which of course we all most patently are not [see addendum]).

(The Aborigine, incl. the Torres Strait Islanders make up approx 2.5% of the total Australian population. While according to the Government’s ‘welfare dependency’ statistics, such 'dependency' (inclusive) can reach as high as 20% of the total Australian population.)

With a little subtraction one can see a greater number of Australians outside of the Aboriginal community are themselves poor fishermen.
I can only surmise that they too have cultural and familiar reasons for enjoying similar conditions. A policy of dependency on the Crown instituted by the Crown for the Crown.
Posted by aqvarivs, Saturday, 21 July 2007 4:24:45 PM
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Is OLO quality assurance slipping?

I've read better/informed graffiti.

Here we have an old navel gazer lamenting throwing together a bunch of memories with a peppering of his own bigoted ideals.

Has he ever had any engagement with Indigenous people? No

Has he ever worked in this area of policy? No

Has he done any research for this piece? No

Has he done anything that would support some expertise in this area of public life? NO

Is he the full quid? NO

OLO, I realize that its important to provide a forum for all types of views but this one is scaping at the bottom of the barrel
Posted by Rainier, Sunday, 22 July 2007 12:26:12 PM
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“After a brief search, does not allow me to draw the same conclusions as you seem to draw”.

- What contra conclusions did you draw and on what studies and what basis? Else, we will be playing aimless ping-pong on this thread. What do understand to be the relationship between ecology and culture and behaviour? How do you see the relationship between ecology and culture and behaviour pertinent/not pertinent to clan~ to~ nation-state relationships? Will contribute “your” opinion on the thread topic, please. Kindly build and present an argument based “your” insights.

“Also do not understand how you apply these still-unstated laws of ecology so as to conclude which cultures and/or communities may be doomed as a result of being "out of touch" with the environment.”

-The points I am making about ecology can be gleaned from my comments. Essentially, my wording is a generic like the Laws of Survival. An overarching Law might be to adopt behaviours appropriate to one’s environment and avoid behaviours that are inappropriate behaviours. My runner-swimmer metaphor illustrates.

You seem to pass judgement on un-named "Aboriginal elders" on the basis of facts, assumptions and opinions which, for me, need more clarification. I'm hoping you have the patience to indulge me with further explanation.

- Elders have high status in communal [in-group] association, such as clans: It does not follow elders are particularly knowledgeable about clan-to-larger society socialisation dynamics relevant to cross-cultural analysis. Moreover, the elders have a stake in being elders and, --unless the individual elder has actually studied inter/cross culture happenings in history-- it would unlikely an elder could guide the solution. That said, elders’ authority in in-group clans could be leveraged to advantage.

- Thank you for you critique. Please articulate your position on the topic, so I can do likewise.


Acqarivs,

Thanks. One’s group needs to “want” to learn how to fish. Socialisation is required.

Rainier,

Demonstrate you can do better.Tell us what you would do? Articulate your solution. [It is one thing to whinge, it is another to contribute.]
Posted by Oliver, Sunday, 22 July 2007 4:02:08 PM
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Rainier

I agree with you that this 'article' is scraping the bottom of the barrel. But at least it's obvious. No one's going to argue with you there.

The 'articles' I think are the most contemptable are the ones written by the 'economist' or the 'analyst' of some description.

These guys think they're entitled to write on a whole range of issues outside their field of expertise, and are somehow convinced that they know what they're talking about.

But what's even worse than that, is that the publishers, particularly OLO and newspapers such as The Australian, think that tagging 'economist' onto the byline, somehow gives their opinion pieces some authority.
Posted by Liz, Sunday, 22 July 2007 5:13:00 PM
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A quick Google retrieves "Laws of Ecology" aplenty. Try

http://www.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/rural-nz/sustainable-resource-use/water-efficiency/water-conference/motueka/tsld002.htm

The Four Laws of Ecology

1. Everything is connected to everything else
2. Everything must go somewhere
3. Nature knows best
4. There’s no such thing as a free lunch

Attributed to Barry Commoner.

Now we all have a clear statement of "the laws of ecology".

As for your references to anthropology and cross-cultural psychology,
Oliver, I doubt that you know what you are talking about.

I see little point in adding my own amateur opinions, as I have only the most indirect connection with the realities experienced by Aboriginals living in rural and outback Australia
Posted by Sir Vivor, Monday, 23 July 2007 8:46:14 AM
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