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The Forum > Article Comments > Darling of cultural warriors > Comments

Darling of cultural warriors : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 29/6/2007

Can't the Islam-haters out there find a more credible 'insider' to promote their cause than Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

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IRF... I appreciate that you are using the correct terminology now "Islam haters" rather than 'Muslim haters' *tick*

I went to that article you linked us to, and had a read.

I found this:

[Let's talk a little bit about politics and Islam. As one looks at your work, and looks at the sweep of Islamic history, it becomes very clear, again, that there have been different answers to this problem of whether to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's," or whether the two, that is, religion and the state, should be combined. So help us understand that diversity within Islam, and help us understand whether the faith itself points in one direction or another.]

He continues:

[There are really two options. One is the example of the prophet Muhammad, in which religious belief and practice, community affairs, and politics all go together. There's one leader. There's one authority. This is the life of a small, integrated community. That example goes on through the centuries in all parts of the Muslim world. And since the eighteenth century and right down to the present, it's invoked as an ideal model. This is the "just" society.

The other model is one in which there is a separation of state and religion]

Quality analysis of the above quotes is beyond the word limit of a post, but suffice to say, I don't know of any understanding of State/Mosque in Islamic history or law which suggests it can be anything other than 'The Prophet, his example and Sunnah' ie.. OPTION 1 only.

This man demonstrates a very defficient understanding of Islam, and a very 'generalized' approach to history, making observations of the symptoms rather than connecting them to the roots.

He is scary if he is taken seriously.

FH. those 'new scholars' will probably end up losing their heads if 'certain Muslims' currently in jail get their way. (or from some similar fundamentalist Muslim in the country they are in)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 29 June 2007 6:11:18 PM
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Irfan is male, enough said
Posted by Sarah101, Friday, 29 June 2007 6:20:53 PM
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Thank your Irfan. Very polite. I will have a look
Posted by Leigh, Friday, 29 June 2007 8:44:14 PM
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Boaz,

“FH. those 'new scholars' will probably end up losing their heads if 'certain Muslims' currently in jail get their way”

It might but every reformist movement had its causalties.

Fethullah Gulen (fethullahgulen.org) have influenced 20 Millions in his country while someone like Amr Khaled influenced over 70 million Muslim youth. A handful of modern Islamic scholars have influenced over 200 Million Muslims over the last 2 decades. You will have to admire them and respect their efforts for staying the distance and looking the devil of terrorism in the eye.

That is group A. Group B, preferred to run away and hide in western countries and became ‘fatwa’ millionaires. In my view B are not worthy of licking A’s boots.

If it was your faith you would have no respect to group B, in fact modern Christian history values and honours priests who lost their lives for the Christian reforms. Its hypocrisy to ask Muslims to have any respect for the likes of Rushdie because you wouldn’t do it if you are in their shoes. Seems your hate for Islam is making you justify anything.
Posted by Fellow_Human, Friday, 29 June 2007 9:14:01 PM
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Irfan Yusuf, thanks for that.
Wanted to "know" Ayaan Hirsi Ali better, but not on the say-so of the usual peroxided, botoxed, xenophobic and pathological tabloid harpies. These exploited a complex and sad case, via their melodramatic eyewash, for submerged local political and ideological reasons rather than out of concern for women or any other people. This was basically the same sort of psychodrama that Australians were subjected to on a much larger scale with the Aboriginal "emergency" of this week
With Ayaan Hirsi Ali, truth proves stranger than fiction; more dramatic and more mundane; more complex, and "human" in its reality.
Posted by funguy, Friday, 29 June 2007 10:04:41 PM
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Hi FH, How have you been? I'm still hanging in. Glad to see you are still fighting your battles, even if I can't say I agree with you (which you probably noticed!)

I am familiar with Gulan movement. I even went to their dinner, invited by mistake - Me and a bunch of Turks. There was no Q&A session, so no blood was shed. My table partners probably wondered who invited the crazy old man. They kindly gave me a book explaining Gulan.

The trouble with Gulan, as all Muslims, is denial and distortion. I quote: "political parties can operate freely if...they recognize Islam... as law and not act against it" (p108) and meaningless nothings such as "love is the key word in Gulen's dialog" (p121)or worse yet, outright lies like "The Quran declares that one that takes a life unjustly is as if took the lives of all mankind" (p109) .

The book is worthless. It is just sweet words for PC, multiculturalist infidels. I have read the Quran and hadath and this work is just what the Gulen would like you to believe, not what those writings say.

It is also not what exists in Islamic societies. If Islam is so wonderful, explain the violence and abuse that we find in them. Could it be that Islamic societies are what they are because they are ISLAMIC?

Show me an Islamic society that treats its religious minorities correctly and respects free speech. Please indicate one in which this old man would not be killed or imprisoned for his opinions.

I have given you and other Muslims links and references to hate, violence in the Quran and to vile actions by your dear prophet. Makes no difference, does it? Have I lied? Did I make things up?

Why should I trust Muslims when they refuse to be honest about their own writings? Why should I trust people that love a guy that murdered, lied, tortured, plundered, enslaved, raped and beat his 9yearold wife?

I think that is a fair question and one that deserves an answer.

Kactuz
Posted by kactuz, Saturday, 30 June 2007 6:57:51 AM
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