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The Forum > Article Comments > Darling of cultural warriors > Comments

Darling of cultural warriors : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 29/6/2007

Can't the Islam-haters out there find a more credible 'insider' to promote their cause than Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

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Thanks, Peter, for your question. As I've written elsewhere, Hirsi Ali's great service to us all has been to highlight the gross human rights violations carried out against women in the name of religion.

Personally, I think that when it comes to human rights, there should be no cultural relativity. I think all faiths in their essence (including Hinduism which is often tarnished because of a caste system superimposed upon it) are united on human rights. Hence, followers of any religion have no excuses.

Cultural practises which involve violations of human rights must be eliminated. Whether this is done gradually or with a sledgehammer is a matter people can argue about.

FGM is outlawed in Australia, and so it should be. FGM is a cultural practice which in my opinion has no religious sanction, despite being practised on sub-Saharan women of all faiths.
Posted by Irfan, Friday, 29 June 2007 1:22:48 PM
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Leigh, don't take my word for it. Read Professor Ira Lapidus' encyclopaedic "History of Islamic Societies". You can find out more about Lapidus and his book by watching/listening here ...

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=9912

and

http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people3/Lapidus/lapidus-con0.html
Posted by Irfan, Friday, 29 June 2007 1:25:50 PM
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Here we bloody well go again poor bloody irfan and poor bloody (as in gory) islam being persecuted once again.Ayaan is telling her story so she may have possibly accidently or even on purpose told a lie or two you know irfan and you know that you know your koran or the terrorist/suicide bomber's manual tells-nay-instructs moslems that it is quite okay to lie to pigs and monkeys that's Jews & Christians it is called "taqiyya" as well it is okay to break truces/treaties when islam has regained its strength this is called "hudna" so why should any alleged lie told to you or a lie about the wonderful,kind, peaceful religion (pagan) of peace upset you. Anyhow what small minded free, civilized, decent (in comparison with islamics)Australian whether pagan (other brand), atheist or Christian would have an arguement with peace loving, honest, wonderful islam. Perhaps it is the craven suicide bombers,or the head loppers, or perhaps it's the cowardly (dis)honour murderers or those of the religion of peace who in every country from Australia to Zanzibar cause problems. Perhaps it's your mad mullah's with their constant backing of terrorists or their preaching against Australian freedoms and democracy. Maybe it's the constant description of Christians and Jews as pigs and monkeys. Or even their - pagan islamics - constant bleatings about being mis-understood or being harrassed or persecuted.All I can say to you is wake up have a look at this world and see which religion causes the most strife and has 99.9% of bloody, gutless, barbaric,brutal, inhumane terrorists in their ranks.
NO! I do not hate moslems just their stinking, foul, obscene, misogynistic tribal pagan religion. Regards, numbat
Posted by numbat, Friday, 29 June 2007 3:22:21 PM
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Leigh, Coach, Goddess, Numbat.

Criticisms are fine, but I'm afraid I've yet to see anything substantial in your criticisms here. All are directed at the author and completely ignore the content of the article.

Leigh - if you're sick and tired of the whole 'muslim thing' then why comment? You don't seem so sick and tired when it's an article attacking muslims, but whenever someone has the temerity to highlight another side of the debate, you damn it.
Are you willing to concede there are elements of Islam that are acceptable? Are you willing to discuss them rationally? Or is the only acceptable option attacking it?

Coach - I agree that the reaction from some muslim quarters regarding matters such as Rushdie is totally unacceptable. There can be no apologetics for actions such as declaring fatwas or permitting violence. Yet, there are some criticisms of Islam - people line up to do it on OLO for almost every article.
As I said to Leigh - criticisms fine, but give it some substance.
Plus, I haven't seen Irfan defend these violent actions, though the way he's treated by some posters is as though he was an extremist.
Seems to me, some people have difficulty separating individuals from their religion.

Goddess - provide something to back that up. As it stands, it's utterly empty sledging.

Numbat - more generalisations about suicide bombings. It happens. Believe it or not, that's not what this is about, but hey, an opportunity for a swipe's fine right?

I disagree with Benjamin's post, but at least he's expressing himself with some reasons or backing. The rest of you are just shouting at muslims for the sake of it.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Friday, 29 June 2007 3:43:08 PM
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Coach and like-minded,

"Islam refuses to engage in free open criticism"

There are increasing efforts by a number of Islamic scholars regarding modernisation of islamic thinking. here are a couple of examples:

www.free-minds.org
www.fethullahgulen.org.

Gulen (Turkish national) efforts in the last 2 decades attracted as many as 20 million muslims in Turkey alone to adopt new thinking.
There are many more example I can see on the web. Your comment may be correct to 'salafis' (salafis means = old & traditional) as yes they would not accept criticism and won't change their ways.

But why use a group of traditionalist to paint brush all muslims?

Peace,
Posted by Fellow_Human, Friday, 29 June 2007 4:47:31 PM
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TLTR,

You've saved me having to write a post - you said it pretty much all for me.

Where does all this vitriol and vituperation come from? Where is the (supposed) Aussie value of a fair go - which I believe includes listening to what people say and not responding with a vindictive and puerile ad hominem argument.

I may not share Irfan's belief in a deity, but I do believe in his right to believe in one, and I applaud his willingness to cop the rubbish thrown at him by the quartet you mention.
Posted by Reynard, Friday, 29 June 2007 4:49:04 PM
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