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The Forum > Article Comments > Throwing stones in the glass greenhouse > Comments

Throwing stones in the glass greenhouse : Comments

By Mark S. Lawson, published 7/6/2007

Logic is never the aim in the climate change debate. The aim is to push the opposition to one side and get on with the politics.

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Climate change is a fact. Climate has been changing since it first occured and will continue to change regardless of the efforts of, well....anyone. The current assembly of bad guys, generically referred to as Greenhouse Gasses, are probably contributing to it and subtly altering its speed or conditions, but if they were there or not, a cyclone would have eventually lobbed into some desert country or other as it did recently. So let's not fight it.
Yep, there is a climate change industry, and a climate change racket perpetrated upon the basis of the Politics of Fear but I, being an old-schooler, prefer some kind of alliteration in my personal snideness and would like to propose the epithet "Climate Change Con."
Posted by enkew, Friday, 8 June 2007 7:42:23 AM
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Well what do you expect; everyone to be in it for purely altruistic reasons?

Of course they aren’t ever going to be.

But it is grossly overstating the case to call the momentum or effort to do something about climate change an industry or racket.

Life’s not black and white. Nor is it simple shades of grey. It is multicoloured and multidimensional, blah, blah. The struggle for the greater good and the promotion of vested interests can and do exist side by side and in overlap.

As for true altruism (the wilful sacrifice of one’s own interests or wellbeing for the sake of something that is non-self [Wikipedia]); you can’t expect anyone to practice it. We all have an interest in what we do. In fact, this definition doesn’t make any sense. I mean, who is going to sacrifice their own wellbeing if they have no interest in doing so, and hence no reason nor anything to gain?

We’ll just have to accept that there are vested-interest motives on all sides.
Posted by Ludwig, Friday, 8 June 2007 7:46:28 AM
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"That is another common tactic when faced with an inconvenient piece of scepticism, pointing to a hastily-contrived counter-argument, no matter how flimsy, and claiming that it “discredits” the scepticism."

For some great examples of this head over to http://www.realclimate.org home of the flimsy counter argument. Some examples of weak counter arguments include:

Southern Hemisphere isn't warming as much as Northern Hemisphere because of the Southern Ocean.

The 800 year lag of CO2 behind temperature doesn't mean CO2 doesn't drive temperature.

Global Dimming. It would be a whole lot warmer if wasn't for this cooling.

Polar amplification. Well really only Northern polar amplification as the Southern Ocean stops it happening at the South Pole.

Satellite temperature readings are not showing any warming since 1998. So they must be wrong, it couldn't possibly be something we don't understand.

The surface is warming faster than the troposphere, against model predictions. The troposphere temperature measurements must be wrong, it couldn't possible be the models.

Just to name a few...

climate change industry, climate change racket, climate change con....all very true....climate change groupthink (=IPCC)
Posted by alzo, Friday, 8 June 2007 7:52:57 AM
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What exactly is this 'climate change industry'?

How many does it employ? Who exactly is in it? If Lawson means the scientists (in Australia? theres less than a hundred employed in the CC field) and the greenies (less than fifty getting any of their time paid for), are they two industries or one? Even if one, its a bloody tiny industry.

Actually we all know its just a conveniently sour label for everyone casting doubt on the economic-growth-is-good program(ming).

Incidentally, i raised some of the many problems with Great Global Warming Swindle 'documentary' on a past thread of Mr Lawsons, and he made no response nor shows any hesitation in endorsing it.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5830
Even tho Carl Wunsch (who Lawson cites) has slammed it.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled-carl-wunsch-responds/
Congratulations Mark, for ceaseless propagandising in the face of all the information. No wonder the AFR is sinking http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21750885-643,00.html
but don't take it personally, you're far from the only fossil fool at the AFR.
Posted by Liam, Sunday, 10 June 2007 11:07:33 PM
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I can't wait to watch the Great Global Warming Swindle 'documentary' for a second time. Apparently the ABC has a re-edited version (maybe Carl Wunsch got cut). I urge everybody to watch. Coming to the ABC in JULY.
Posted by alzo, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 2:14:01 PM
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I can’t wait either Alzo, especially after reading Carl Wunch’s response, bought to our attention by Liam.
Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 6:55:31 PM
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