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The Forum > Article Comments > Championing education > Comments

Championing education : Comments

By Dale Spender, published 25/5/2007

Countering the critics: let's face it, even Shakespeare could have usefully used a spell checker!

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I don't have time just now but Waterboy I will attempt to enlighten you over the next few days you are just so typical of the pro private lobby ideologically driven and ignorant of the real facts. In the mean time just read over what you have said in you posts over the last few weeks then go and research the federal governments SES model of private school funding and Dr. Kemp's demolition of the New Schools Policy as soon as Howard was elected and also read all you can about the concept of common wealth. You may, unless totally indoctrinated, just come to see the inequity of the system and how it is rapidly breaking down the society we have come to cherish
Posted by thinks4self, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 8:25:28 AM
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Exposing Federal Government Schools Funding Pt. 1(or How the Howard Government is privatising our education system along with everything else)

Waterboy look and learn.
Most of the ability of the Howard government to overindulge private schools stems from the dysfunction of federal Stare financial arrangements

In no other country does the provision of public funding for non -government schools dominate the agenda of a national government

Howard government spending on non - government schools is growing at the rate of three times that of government schools

The increased public responsibility passed on to government schools is not matched by federal government funding which is flowing 3 to 1 to the private schools. Look at the debates on values, standards etc all brokered by the Howard Govt. and targeted at only government schools

Enough for the time being Waterboy dwell on this for a while. It is all fact.(to be continued )
Posted by thinks4self, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 2:26:41 PM
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For anyone who is really interested in the truth!

Read this media release from the Catholic Church in NSW
http://www.sydney.catholic.org.au/Archbishop/Addresses/2004229_688.shtml
or this from the Catholic Church in Victoria
http://web.ceo.melb.catholic.edu.au/uploads/news/election/facts.pdf

They clearly expose the deceit in t4s's misrepresentation (by careful selection of statistics) of the facts and they are obviously NOT conservative propaganda as t4s has suggested.

In 2004 Catholic schools in NSW received, on average, $5,506 per student in total government funding. In the same year NSW government schools received $7,832 per student. In Victoria the situation was even worse for the Catholic Schools. The majority of govt funding to Catholic Schools comes from the Commonwealth Govt. These are NOT wealthy schools. Victorian Catholic schools have LESS money to spend per student than government schools. And thinks4self would take half their income away from them.

This whole debate is a bit pointless since the Labor Party is now committed to maintaining the current arrangements at least for their first term of government. They can see the difficulty in disrupting the whole education system just on an ideological whim and circumstances will not be any different at the end of their first term. Political reality will dictate that they do no more than fiddle around the edges of school funding.

T4s's proposal to shut down private schools for all but the extremely wealthy is a dead duck. NO party could ever take away school funding and hope to stay in power for long. Australians do not want an American style system where the leaders of the country (business and political) come almost exclusively from a very few, extremely privileged schools, courtesy of funding arrangements that roughly match t4s's proposal
Posted by waterboy, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 10:49:22 PM
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Waterboy am I reading correctly

You're quoting a Catholic Church media release on school funding as being the truth. I direct you to some great reading, the story of Rip Van Winkle in your case it could almost be autobiographical.
Next thing you’ll be saying any politician that attempts to cut funding to private schools will not go to heaven
Posted by thinks4self, Thursday, 14 June 2007 9:12:14 AM
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t4s

Well... you've just managed to alienate nearly half of Australia's population.

BUT we'll keep trying!

This information comes from the Productivity Commission. You probably dont believe them either so this is just for those people who really CAN think for themselves.

• There were 3.4 million full time equivalent school students enrolled in August 2005 in 9623 schools. Of these, 70.9 per cent of primary students and 62.1 per cent of secondary students were educated in government schools.
• Australian, State and Territory governments spent $30.8 billion on school education in 2004 05, of which $24.2 billion (78.5 per cent) was spent on government schools

from http://www.pc.gov.au/gsp/reports/rogs/2007/factsheet01.rtf

Oddly enough, the Productivity Commission data is pretty consistent with what the Catholic Church and Christian Schools Association are saying!

It simply does not make sense to look exclusively at direct Commonwealth Govt funding in this debate. That is only a small part of the story and to pursue your line of argument without reference to total goverment funding is most disingenuous of you.
Posted by waterboy, Thursday, 14 June 2007 10:16:52 AM
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It’s sad that this schools funding debate usually incorporates a lot of religious zealotry which clouds logic but I’ll keep trying. Waterboy keeps harping back to the mischievous total funding argument. This is what pro the private lobby rely on and on it alone. The real picture is very different.
The growing reliance by non-government schools (NGS) on public funding has not been matched by these NGS taking on the responsibility that attaches to public funding in public schools. NGS are exclusive and in most cases secular – their marketing tools.
The is no public regulating of funds to NGS, no regulations that prevent NGS opening more schools or raising fees at the same time as getting more and more public funds.
The provision of accurate and transparent accountability imposed on public schools is not applied to NGS even though they are getting increased funding (Audit reports from both NSW and Vic)
There is little real accountability for the use of public funds in NGS where as funds allocated to special areas in public schools such as low socio programs and aboriginal education are bound up in red tape. NSG can keep the quantum of private funding from the tax paying public.
Catholic parents, big recipients of public largesse don’t even know how much the public is paying for their secular schools. A survey done by the Sun Herald 2001 found that 2/3 of catholic parents thought that parents provided most of the funding for their primary schools where as they actually provide less than 15%. The rest comes from government.
Waterboy the school funding debate is being manipulated by ideology and very powerful political and religious lobbyists who are getting huge and increasing amounts diverted away from what could be a truly a world best education system such as we had before the private rorts started. I hope you are just misguided and not one of them.
Posted by thinks4self, Friday, 15 June 2007 11:24:53 AM
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