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The Forum > Article Comments > The abortion conundrum > Comments

The abortion conundrum : Comments

By Brian Holden, published 18/5/2007

Pro-choice advocates must remain eternally vigilant.

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MickV,

'If you’re looking for my opinion on contraception, here it is. If you are not ready to have a baby, then wisely use contraception. If you are okay about the idea of having a baby, then don’t.' You are absolutely right. Abortion is not a form of contraception. I don't think you'll get much of an argument there.

Contraception therefore is actually very important. Especially as there is a lot of talk from many that there are abortions happening for 'frivolous' reasons. That sounds like if contraception had been used there would be very few abortions.

Surely we can at least all agree that preventing an unwanted pregnancy is the way to go. Sounds more productive than praying at abortion clinics and lamenting the numbers.

Prohibiting abortions is a step backward, Danielle and Celivia have addressed the issue of 'backyard abortions'. Preventing an unwanted pregnancy from occurring in the first place is progress.

I would say, that's good: fewer women risking adverse effects (physically and possibly psychologically) from an avoidable surgical procedure (and prevention is a whole lot cheaper!). You would say, that's good: fewer children killed.
Posted by yvonne, Thursday, 21 June 2007 6:59:26 PM
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Nobody assumed anything regarding Jesus’ death and resurrection. Roman soldiers were expert executioners. They weren’t there for fun. And they certainly did apply tests to certify death (read the text again).

I am not surprised that many don’t believe in Jesus’ resurrection. I don’t deny that it takes faith to do so. I only say it is a reasonable faith based on eye witness accounts. But if God created the world and all life, then the resurrection is not a big deal in comparison.

What’s the alternative? Believe in evolution, or that we are alien experiments? These also require much faith.

‘In the beginning, the world in all its wonder and complexity just popped into existence under its own steam. Through evolution, a mysterious process no one has ever seen or been able to adequately explain, an amphibian changes into a reptile then a mammal. Given enough time, a frog changes into a prince.’ Give me a break. Evolution is the creation myth for modern man, a fairy tale for grown ups.

(Perhaps on another thread, I would love to further debate the queries raised in this area, fresh water fish, continental drift, etc. but we have already strayed so far from the topic.)

I have been up front about my beliefs. And I said way back, in my very first post, that I suspected Holden might be supporting his own religious agenda. This is only confirmed when I read the vitriol, the Bible quotes taken out of context, and vigilant antipathy directed towards the God of the Bible from the most vocal of those who support abortion on demand.

If the Bible is not clearly opposed to the practice, why are those condoning abortion wishing to slander it?

I believe the current practice of abortion is wrong morally (as even an atheist like Daniel06 can see), Biblically, and legally (barring some well used and abused loopholes).

(p.s. Can I just add before some empty can says that they don’t want my beliefs imposed on others, that this happens every day. It’s called democracy. Everyone has one vote.)
Posted by Mick V, Saturday, 23 June 2007 6:43:28 AM
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Mick V “If it’s about living with the consequences of your actions, then it’s pretty relevant to this debate.

Should we avoid facing up to what we’ve done, look for the quick fix, or do we take proper responsibility for our actions?”

I see we agree Mick.

Read my posts. No where have I ever suggested a woman deciding on abortion, should avoid the consequences of that decision, which may manifest as guilt or whatever.

But it is her action and decision, not yours.

Your “action” would be to deny her the right to choose. So tell me, where do you live with the consequences of your “action” of denial?

As far as I can see, the only one who lives with any of the consequences is the woman herself. Your life will not be disrupted or disturbed. Your body will not undergo the changes associated with pregnancy. Your life will not be changed either by caring for a young child or giving that child up for adoption.

I have consistently argued that we are all absolutely responsible for the consequences of all our decisions and actions.

But no woman should carry responsibility for the decision (of denying abortion) you would inflict upon her, especially when you bear no consequence yourself.

And an embryo is not “a new life”, it is adjoined and inseparable to the woman’s body. “New Life” starts at birth. Before birth, no society has acknowledged the autonomy of the unborn, simply because, the processes of gestation and birth have been and are so harrowing that “a new life” is only acknowledged following “birth”.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 23 June 2007 10:06:41 AM
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Oh, PeterD
I never used the expression “unborn babies”. So much for honesty. Embryos and fetuses are not “unborn babies”.
If you refer to embryos as ‘unborn babies’, I'd be happy to refer to you as an ‘undead corpse’.

MickV,
I agree that a creationism vs. evolution debate would be too much off-topic here.

Romans might have been expert executors, they were also expert record keepers but nothing at all was recorded about Jesus’ death until about 50 years or so after his death. Anyway, resurrection is medically impossible.

“If the Bible is not clearly opposed to the practice, why are those condoning abortion wishing to slander it?”
The main reason why I criticise the Bible (I don’t call it slander if it’s just repeating what is stated in the Bible) is because it’s useless in setting ‘morals’.
Holy books don't set morals; people interpret them to fit their own morals, not vice versa.

The bible is the foundation for all the different Christian denominations, and yet, many denominations are pro-choice, while other denominations strongly oppose abortion. I haven’t seen evidence that the bible opposes abortion.

I oppose religion when religion tries to control people who don’t interpret the bible the same way they do. They go as far as kill each other for differing beliefs. Religion has been most successful in controlling women than any other ideology.

The days when I respected religion are over- I don’t anymore; religion should be scrutinised and questioned as much as any other (political or other) group or institution; they don’t deserve more rights or freedoms than anyone else.

Even though I lack the belief that there is a God, I would not feel a need to criticise a God such as described by Col: one who has given us free will.

I’m happy for anyone to keep on adhering to their religion no matter how primitive. But don’t tell other groups of people (e.g. pregnant women) that they should submit to theirr beliefs. Abortion has always existed and will go on existing; all we can do is try to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
Posted by Celivia, Saturday, 23 June 2007 4:50:33 PM
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