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The Forum > Article Comments > The abortion conundrum > Comments

The abortion conundrum : Comments

By Brian Holden, published 18/5/2007

Pro-choice advocates must remain eternally vigilant.

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well well well....it is funny to see that the majority of people who have responded to this article are male....well by nicknames i have assumed and very well could be mistaken. it is amazing that not many women have respond to this or to what some people have said.

Aborition is not murder, it is far from it. many of you have put forth these beliefs with really good analogies.
i agree that people should not waste their time fighting against something that gives a women choice. for many years women lived without any choice and now that they are gaining some they are being criticized for it. why not fight against children living in poverty, domestic violence, child abuse (physical and sexual)racism, the disgusting treatment of immigrants. Aborition is legal and very acceptable.
Posted by Bacon, Friday, 18 May 2007 7:35:08 PM
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If it is simply a matter of it being the womans body, therefore her decision alone to abort or not to abort, do not make men responsible for children at any stage of the process. Those who advocate that it is a womans body should be also advocating that Men should have zero responsibility for children period. The whole concept of children should be a female issue and a female responsibility and men should be free from any and all regard.
Posted by aqvarivs, Friday, 18 May 2007 11:47:09 PM
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At the end of the day, the question of abortion is a subjective
question, given that there is no such thing as objective morality.

Darwin was right. Far more potential beings of any species will be
created, then can every survive. We ignore the laws of nature at
our peril.

My own personal line in the sand is drawn at the point where
a being becomes a person, ie they have a functioning human brain.
No human brain = no person.

Runner and others might well preach their sanctamonious preaching
about the heart. I remind him that hearts are pumps, nothing
more.

Do they practise what they preach? I guess actions speak louder
then words. There is much noise preached about the sanctity of
human life. It seems everyone wants to tell everyone else what
to do, as long as it does not involve their own personal resources.

Given the number of starving babies in Africa, Runner is free to
sell his computer and send the money there, and save another couple.
Or he is free to keep telling us about how uncaring we are, whilst
he puts his own self interest first, via owning his computer, when
those babies could be saved
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 19 May 2007 12:16:43 AM
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Wobbles says –

“The troublesome thing about many pro-lifers is that their involvement begins and ends with their personal moral view of the world and displays no empathy toward the parent or interest in the outcome.”

This is true of “many pro-lifers”, and I think it’s a big part of the problem.

Donnie says –

‘I think "pro-life" advocates would better serve if they turned their energies from damning to helping. ...... Help these women be able to survive the 9 months of pregnancy and then help find a suitable home for the child. Help make it not so much of a terrible, "life-ending" prospect for a woman to carry a baby to term and give birth when she doesn't want to raise it .....’

I can’t put it better, so I won’t try to.

I’m in the pro-life camp, and am quite clear about abortion almost always being homicide, but I’m very conscious that pro-life has got obsessed about this one aspect of a complex and varied situation.

Col Rouge says – “morality is a subjective value” And Yabby says something similar:

“At the end of the day, the question of abortion is a subjective question, given that there is no such thing as objective morality.”

If Col and Yabby are right, then there is nothing to discuss. I mean, there is never anything to discuss. Not even the legality of abortion, because someone might not subjectively “feel” morally bound to obey the law.

The fact that we’re all bumping heads over this means we all know there is a moral reality and that abortion, like everything else, has a real moral character. It’s just that we have a different idea of what it is. Imagine someone hiding either an apple or orange behind their back and asking people to guess: some say “apple”, some say “orange”. They may be confident or not, vehement or not. They have subjective opinions, but these opinions are about an objective fact. I see morality like that.

Ronnie Peters: Good luck with all your labels. You’ll need to make some t-shirts!

Pax,
Posted by goodthief, Saturday, 19 May 2007 12:06:51 PM
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Yabby's arguement of all pro abortionist being hyprocites is typical of the pro deaths arguement in trying to defend the indefencible. As if giving money to Africa has anything to do with the murder of thousands of unborn babies mainly due to inconvenience. Yabby then argues the hopelessly flawed moral relativism arguement which is secular humanism at its worst. Secular humanist or athiest continue to insist their view is correct and then deny absolutes. How dishonest?
Posted by runner, Saturday, 19 May 2007 12:41:35 PM
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Many great posts and a wonderful debate!

Abbott shows, with his anti-choice crusade, that he is more concerned with protecting Ratzinger’s health than with protecting Australian women’s health, even though he is being paid to be concerned about women’s health.
If he was serious about women’s health, he would do everything in his power to help women PREVENT unplanned pregnancies. He is reactional and will keep running around in the same circle.
Do we see him putting any pressure on the government to greatly improve sex education in all of our schools? Does he hand out free contraception to all (teenage) women?
Are condoms easily available from all senior's High Schools toilet area's?

WHY NOT?

If he neglects his duty as a health minister he should have to hand in his present portfolio. Making abortion harder to obtain is gambling with tax-paying women’s health!

There is enough evidence that promoting excellent sex education and free contraception is making abortions very rare (lowest rates are in the Netherlands: 6 in every 1000 women, while the vast majority having an abortion are the immigrant women who obviously have missed out on sex ed.)

Most abortion cases are in countries where abortion is illegal and where there is no realistic sex education. Telling teenagers not to have sex to prevent pregnancies doesn’t even count as sex Ed in my opinion.

FACE IT!

Ignoring these facts and not acting upon them is neglectant and moronic.
Instead of calling women murderers, why don’t pro-life crusaders do something positive and insist on prevention?

As Bill Clinton said, abortion should be safe, legal and rare. Abortion MUST remain legal in order to be safe. I add, it should not only be safe and legal, it should be easily accessible as well! Accessibility does not increase abortion rates.

Continued
Posted by Celivia, Saturday, 19 May 2007 4:42:02 PM
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