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The Forum > Article Comments > Intolerance in schools funding debate > Comments

Intolerance in schools funding debate : Comments

By Stephen O'Doherty, published 2/4/2007

Christian schools have generally been in working class and lower middle class areas, providing choice not previously available to families.

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"They do this so that Christian education can be affordable and accessible. If Alan Matheson had his way, and government funding was taken away from Christian schools this choice would only be available to very wealthy families. Where’s the justice in that?"

Take a step back, Stephen-O. Where's the justice in funding based on SES (which you proudly sport) in a secular nation (in which you live)? Personally, I find more justice in seeing Christians pay top dollar to get their shiny education than i do seeing do-gooders like you continue to insist on separating kids based on their parents' religious beliefs.
Justice? pfft.
Posted by edwardcav, Monday, 2 April 2007 10:26:12 PM
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"If the State schools stopped preaching their religion then they might not lose people who make many sacrifices to send their children to private schools."

It's a nonsense to claim that state schools are "preaching their religion". State schools are broadly secular and humanist that is true but they certainly don't preach "secular humanism". You wouldn't hear that term mentioned in a state school anywhere. It's a loaded term being deliberately coined to unfairly brand people or institutions who don't fit the narrow world view of the user.

State schools don't teach religion or any other dogma that requires faith-based acceptance. They hold to the view which is the basis of all advanced civilizations that learning should require the application of reasoning and scientific evidence. It's an underpinning principle and not something that is preached or indoctrinated as implied here.

State schools are inclusive in every way and accommodate all religious beliefs. They allow religious groups to conduct education classes and many now have chaplains. In fact I doubt if any state school could truly claim to be strictly secular and humanist in practice even if they wanted to.
Posted by Bronwyn, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 10:59:43 AM
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Stephen. "Christian" schools cater for the working class and lower middle class is what you're trying to spin. The Catholics in particular built near public schools to capture as many "lost souls" as they could. They also piggy backed on the State -funded infrastructure.

These million-dollar schools that Matheson refers to aren't catering for the “working class” sport. Matheson makes some very good points and all you can do is get personal.

Maybe in the old days Christian schools had some heart in relation to the poor but now it is just big business and elitism. I live near a private school and certain ones hate those who they perceive aren't on their level. "We all hate you and wish you'd piss off." "Why don't you go back to where you came from." Etc.

A lad in working clothes was walking through a public park which the school have hijacked. The students walked along behind him taunting:
“street bum, street bum" . Fair enough kids will be kids but a teacher stood there watching with a silly smerk on his face. Don't dare talk of intolerance to me in relation to Christian schools like this one. These are the words of representatives of your “tolerant” “Christian” school communities.

Moreover, I don’t know any working class people that get around in the mostly expensive vehicles that drop these kids off.

Having said that there are many lovely parents and children who attend that school but the management are only interested in prestige, reputation and money.

This school’s buildings and infrastructure is nearly all tax funded. And yet even though decisions that impact on my family (such as allowing builders to start work at 4:30 am during my daughter’s final year at High School – tentacles in the council?); we are not regarded as stakeholders and excluded (talk to the hand mentality).

The networking that goes along with private schools is going to see a lot of ordinary people excluded from proper treatment in society as the silver spoons spread their influence into employment services, unis, police, legal areas and so on.
Posted by ronnie peters, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 12:18:20 PM
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The SES formula for funding private schools sounds good but is actually grossly distorted - to the detriment of lower fee schools, in fact, as well as to public schools.
Firstly, it doesn't measure the actual incomes of the families who choose a particular school (for disadvantaged public schools to access extra funding they must get actual parents to fill in actual forms about their employment and income status). Private schools - of all kinds - simply send in the addresses of their students. The more who live in a disadvantaged area, the higher their SES ranking and the more money they get. But, notice, the students don't actually have to be disadvantaged themselves, just live in an area where their neighbours are disadvantaged. So cotton farmer's from Moree who send their kids to high fee boarding schools (charging $15- 20,000 plus in up front fees) get a ranking as if they were from an indigenous family - 88% of whom go to the local public school. The high fee school reaps the money that should go to the kids in the public school- in essence.
Worse, there is a no-loser clause. So, even if all the students of a school live in Point Piper but they once had some students from a disadvantaged area, they still get funded as if they were still there - not that those students had to be actually disadvantaged in the first place either.
As for low fee Christian schools, even low fee ones in disadvantaged areas will still enroll higher SES kids on average, than the local public school will. Yes, some public schools in wealthier suburbs will have higher SES kids than some private schools in poorer areas, but, on average the public high school (in particular) will enroll the lowest SES kids in its area, and most of them get no extra money at all.
More than half of all private schools are now funded above their (already dodgy) SES ranking, funding that can now only go up, not down.
Sorry Stephen, but I am slightly intolerant about that.
Posted by ena, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 3:53:17 PM
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If evolution is not a faith based religion then I have never come across one. You need more faith to accept this as science as you do creation. Also if biblical values are not taught then another set of values takes its place. That set of values is certainly not tolerant as many unborn babies find out!
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 5:59:23 PM
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When poorer private schools with normal working class families are lumped in with elitist private schools it shows the bias of the writer. They fail to mention elitist public schools, and don't say they don't exist, because it doesn't support their arguments. To say that public schools do not push religion is ridiculous when evolution is taught every day in every classroom and this takes more faith to believe in than an all supreme creator. There are many private schools where parents and staff give of their time voluntarily to mow the grounds, do the cleaning and maintain the facilities because they can't afford groundsmen and additional teachers aides which are simply just given to public schools. They work long hours and sacrifice a lot because they have found the public schools have failed them. They often have students with learning difficulties who have come from other schools where they are being ignored or at least let fall through the cracks and devote hours to support them. They know each child, support each family and work to make sure all of their students can read and write. They look at the state of our nation and the proclamation that students literacy and numeracy levels are way down on what they were 20 years ago and know that, despite public school opinion, they are doing a good job. If you believe your child is worth it you will make the sacrifice whether that means private or public education.
Posted by Nemo, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 2:03:34 PM
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