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The Forum > Article Comments > What is happening to women? > Comments

What is happening to women? : Comments

By Mary Bryant, published 7/3/2007

What has happened to our liberation, freedom and to the role of women in our society?

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No James wrong again. You compared a poem to an academic work. Also, there was no notes to ‘Sweeney Erect’. However, you may be thinking of his copious notes to “Wasteland”. According to Southam, the notes were added to the first book edition to oblige the publisher Liverright. Moreover, Eliot is well known for his elitist attitude and works which have, according to Virginia Woolf , ” little respect for the weak and consideration for the dull”. I agree with this viewpoint. The para I posted above in this thread should show that. I happen to appreciate most of Eliot’s work although his politics are not my cup of tea.

It may also interest you that Eliot was great mates with Ezra Pound who was included in the inner circle of Mussolini’s’ gang of fascists.

I’d hardly compare the notes of a feminist work to those of Eliot. I find that most feminists are about enabling women or empowering women not lauding it over the supposed dull and ignorant masses (hence the explanatory notes in feminist academic work).

Your main concern was clearly to accuse a feminist author of elitism. Never miss an opportunity to smear a feminist do you?

My point is that we are wrong to invest total authority in the author. Apart from the obvious self depreciation, it also excludes the addressee who may have a different culture or viewpoint. I don’t care whether they are feminist or whatever readers bring meaning to a text by their history and interpretation of it.

Doesn’t mean I agree with you or all feminists’ works. If we do then maybe we are thinking in a modernist way. And there is nothing really wrong with that either except it may signal a blinkered view or some sort of ‘centricity.

Modernism/post-modernism are no world movements just concepts to explain interpretations of the history and the world.

That we are looking back on post-modernism in a kind of ironic way – if we agree that post-modernism looked back on modernism in an ironic way – then maybe we are past post-modernism
Posted by ronnie peters, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 1:53:17 PM
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Aqvarivs: "I learned this as a child, "Haters never prosper." It's still true today. Haters just try to make everyone as miserable as themselves."

Did they also show you how to call good folk "haters" to excuse your own vitriol and misleading nonsense?
Posted by ronnie peters, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 2:00:35 PM
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ronnie peter, No! Unlike you, I was never formally taught such a nonsensical approach. Good People rarely get got up in the tripe your trying to sell. And If by rare chance we do,(if your good, I must be equally good), we don't think every post is directed personally at us and launch a tirade of hatred and belittlement. If we are named and defamed then we defend ourselves.

We don't troll every post looking for excuses to vent our hatred and misconception and use misplaced contextual references learnt in some neo-cultural studies programme lauding post mod deconstruction-relativism overlaid with misconstrued and misquoted Nietzschean philosophy, and dotted with sporadic existentialism.

We would never say something as idiotic as "it also excludes the addressee who may have a different culture or viewpoint. I don’t care whether they are feminist or whatever readers bring meaning to a text by their history and interpretation of it."

We would never apply our own interpretation nor hold that above the authors intended work. We were taught the value of individual words and their relationship in sentence structure to convey what the author means. NOT what the reader would like for it to mean. That is what is so disturbing about you deconstruction argumentative eristics. You have no idea what a author might be trying to convey. It's only important to you to be seen to refute the work, or to have modified a work for “purposes of clarification” to show that you are equally clever.
The authors work takes precedence over what ever you may FEEL it should mean.

Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes.
And clever in their own sight.

That's a little something from the bible but, since God is dead and everything is relative (for how else could we understand anything) You will no doubt miss the authors intended caution.
Posted by aqvarivs, Friday, 6 April 2007 7:11:10 AM
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One of the major complaints I have heard time and time again, is that men are not very good at communicating. It has been documented that as a gender, males are not as articulate as women and that women want men to improve their articulation abilities especially within relationships.

Before ‘Backlash’ appeared, there were a few of us who formed a men’s awareness group, trying to explore men’s issues in a rather amateurish fashion in the 80’s. It was interesting though; there were blokes who were househusbands.

My hypothesis is;

Susan Faludi recognised that, some men either individually or associated with a group will eventually start to discuss and examine what is going on in their lives and how it affects them.

I surmise that she recognised that these men and their groups may head in a direction that feminists did not want. That is examine and challenge feminist dogma, research etc.

Hence ‘Backlash’ ‘but the rising pressure to halt, and even reverse, women’s quest for that equality.” Faduli. (how do we define equality so that we know when it has been achieved?)

Now there is no doubt that men and women do think differently, use language differently and that human relationships are complex and multi-faceted.

Dissing Men
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=4907

Basically I think that some people just want men to shut up, agree with them and to go along with whatever is that they want.

For example in Canada researchers asked mothers if fathers were happy with the current child contact arrangements, it concluded that fathers were happy with the contact arrangements. The fathers were not researched to find out their responses!

Faduli's Backlash was very quickly adopted into common usage.

I know what I am trying to say, but I don't think I did it very well.

Happy Easter Roonie.
Posted by JamesH, Friday, 6 April 2007 7:59:31 AM
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JamesH, I have always thought the differences in thinking between men and women was a social plus. Never as a detraction or a liability for either sex. I wonder how many men marry women who think just like them. It isn't conclusive evidence or a reliable study but, I can say among my close knit clan of husbands and wives, friends, that if our conversations are anything to go by, none exist as a directly observable sameness.
When the moons up and the mosquitoes have gone for the night and the children are tucked in and the fire is dying down and there is only an inch or two left in the bottle, much is said quietly from a different perspective seeking to be understood. The saying of good nights, the kisses and hugs and handshakes, make up all the differences spoken under the sun. Where would we be with out our differences and what would there be to understand.
Posted by aqvarivs, Friday, 6 April 2007 9:17:28 AM
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JameH and Aqvarivs. I know hatred when I see it. You hate and you know two know it. But you can't even se it happening to yourselves. That is why I get up your nose so much because I point it out to you and it sends you into denial.
Posted by ronnie peters, Thursday, 26 April 2007 11:14:00 AM
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