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The Forum > Article Comments > Environmental ethics - a world record for misplaced concern > Comments

Environmental ethics - a world record for misplaced concern : Comments

By Mirko Bagaric, published 15/2/2007

In the time it takes to read this article 30 people in the developing world will die. In the same time, the sea-levels won’t rise a milli-fraction.

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Vivy,
Let us not forget that a goodly number of these now underdeveloped countries were once either themselves powerful (indigenous) entities/empires or parts of powerful (indigenous) entities which ruled over & exploited others (including parts of the now developed world).So they too, at one stage or other, benefited greatly form others labours .(if we are talking of making amends/giving credit where it is due - we need to factor that in)

And lets also not forgot how much the undeveloped world has in the past & still in the present continues to benefit from the developed worlds handouts- technology /medicines/education etc etc …

In fairness - some former undeveloped entities have picked up the ball & run with it, turning things around , others continue to wallow in corruption & maintain a cargo cult mentality.

When all is said & done, the undeveloped worlds plight has more to do with bad management & bad governing principles than exploitation or unfairness .
Posted by Horus, Monday, 19 February 2007 7:11:19 AM
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Horus,
You hit the nail right on the head. This is precisely where cultural issues join the debate. I prefer tennis, you clearly enjoy football, and most of my friends like cricket.
Posted by vivy, Monday, 19 February 2007 7:38:16 AM
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The Koyoto protocol made no demands of developing nations, yet those that signed up were able to trade in carbon credits. Effectively, the developing world was able to receive only the benefits of Koyoto.

In practical terms a developing country can plant a forest (a carbon sink) and real dollars are returned.*

Mirko Bagaric's argument is entirely disproven.

(*Such a source of income is denied to Australians, even though we meet the targets.)
Posted by David Latimer, Monday, 19 February 2007 8:32:41 AM
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"Concrete proof of this is that we live in a community where the only post-womb environment that is experienced by one in four embryos is the bottom of an abortionist’s bucket. This equates to approximately 90,000 future people being exterminated annually in Australia, normally for the economic convenience of the mother."

I think it is the paragraph above that would really highlight just how much of a whack-job this guy is.

Could anyone REALLY be so insulated from the rea world to believe that women have abortions for their 'economic convenience'? This suggestion would have to be one of the most disgusting, appalling things i have ever read on this forum. What's the bet that the author also lays blame for single mothers at the feet of the women. keep these kind of crap opinions to talk-back slosh fests, not where intelligent discussion is meant to take place.
Posted by julatron, Monday, 19 February 2007 9:21:26 AM
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Vivy, I'm sorry to get into you again, but cultural issues will have very little place in the survival of the human race if the current rate of population increase world wide is not reversed and we have used up all the available resources. Perhaps by then, the Catholic church will have recognized the error of its teachings about birth control.

Col Rouge, your point about economics being an art rather than a science is almost correct, but it would be interesting to see how the games theories of Nobel laureate John Forbes Nash Jr. fit into this discussion.

I remember my lecturer pointing out that what was the answer to last year's question was not always the solution to today's question as the economic environment is very dynamic, similar to a game, hence the reference to Nash.
Posted by VK3AUU, Monday, 19 February 2007 10:21:43 AM
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Arjay, “The more we give ,the more the population problem worsens.”

It seems to me we have socialists who have seen their universalist aspirations fall to dust. Now they work to undermine the "pursuit of excellence" by making up rules to restrain the developed through imposing stupid distinctions and responsibilities on them which do not apply to the less competent under developed nations.

The “right to life on earth” is a competitive process with winners and losers and the rules for survival of the fittest apply equally to the human race as it does to lower orders, the better we will all be, especially since we need to reduce global population.

David Latimer “The Koyoto protocol made no demands of developing nations, yet those that signed up were able to trade in carbon credits.”

Oh pleased you bring up the topic of carbon trading again.

I offered to debate the topic on another thread but you slunk away from it.

Maybe discuss it further here?

We can start with how does anyone accurately and reliably measure carbon output and more importantly, prevent the abuse of mythical carbon credits and debits polluting the process. Enron found ways to corrupt accounting processes, I am absolutely certain abuses of an “ethereal market” will abound within a year of its establishment, although it may take 10 years to discover massive fraud.

If “Effectively, the developing world was able to receive only the benefits of Koyoto.”

Who “pays” for those “benefits” ?

three guesses,

hint arrange the following words in the right order “nations developed the of populations“

VK3AUU “Col Rouge, your point about economics being an art rather than a science is almost correct, but it would be interesting to see how the games theories of Nobel laureate John Forbes Nash Jr. fit into this discussion.”

Oh Nash was inspired, and doubtless assisted in his analysis by the other personalities rolling around in his head.

Take any two economist and you will end up with at least three competing theories on any topic you care to name. Nash could achieve that all by himself.
Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 19 February 2007 4:18:37 PM
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