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The Forum > Article Comments > Life in the terror zone > Comments

Life in the terror zone : Comments

By Danny Lamm, published 9/2/2007

How can Israel be expected to make peace with a people who are so divided and sustained by violence?

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Onya Keith :)

there you go again... being ruled by sentimentality rather than practicality and long term solutions.

You said:
["I support compulsory transfer. I do not see in it anything immoral ... The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war."

No you wouldn’t ! But if the word Arab was replaced by Jew and the statement was made by an Arab you’d be up in arms and screeching bloody blue murder.]

Yep.. bloody blue murder..is probably what YOU would be yelling if some Dark Skinned Aussies came along at 3:00 am and told you "GET OFF OUR LAND"
So, all you have done with that little outburts is remind us all of the reality that Justice is a distant cousin if a relative at all of status quos. They are all based on power, and deep down you know it.
Not one is based on what ALL would consider a fair and equitable outcome. So, in the too and fro of history there are winners and losers.

Most people have been or will be both at different times.

YOUNG DAN.. you response to Stephany does not go far enough, taking it back to some Persian.. is very inadequate. In reality it goes back to Genesis .. from chapter 12 to end of the book. And if you don't believe me ..don't worry I'll say no more but just sit back and watch as it ultimately sinks in too all readers heads here.

The key points in history are Gen 12-end up to AD70 (exile of the Jews); 1948 RE- Establishment of Israel.
All the rest is just parenthesis and sub text. Balfour this, and Sykes that, and Persian such and such... are mildly relevant but don't rate when it comes to 'core' issues.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 11 February 2007 1:58:14 PM
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Keith
Your comment about the partition of Palestine is correct except for one important omission: After partition in 1948 7 well equiped Arab armies plus there local Arab allies attacked Israel in order to wipe her off the map and annihilate the Jewish population. They lost, Israel won and thats why she has the land. They have since continued to make war on Israel. The Yom Kippur war was decisively won by Israel not Egypt. When it ended the Egyptian 6th Army was entirely surrounded and starving, The Israelis were about to march on to Cairo. It took the Americans by diplomacy to stop them. That's why President Sadat negotiated peace because he knew that he could not get the Sinai back by warfare.
Please read on in the following few posts about the Israeli Beduins and Australian Aboriginal population.
Posted by ramir, Sunday, 11 February 2007 2:32:46 PM
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Kieth CONT.

Educational attainment issues for Indigenous children [in Australia]
The 1996 National School English Literacy Survey showed that approximately 70% of all students
in year 3 surveyed met the identified performance standards in reading and writing. Less that 20%
of students in the Indigenous [Aboriginal] sample met the reading standards and less that 30% of students in the Indigenous sample met the writing standards. In addition the lowest achieving year 3 Indigenous
students make little or no progress over the following two years and a similar trend for year 5 students.
Over time this situation deteriorates to the point where many Indigenous students are often 3 to 4 year
levels below other students and students leave school with the English literacy level of a six-year old.
Indigenous students are less likely to continue their education beyond the compulsory
years. Only about 36% of remain at school from the commencement of their
secondary schooling to year 12, compared to about 73% of non-Indigenous students in 2000. In
addition, in some parts of the country, in 1997, only a quarter of these year 12 students may
successfully complete year 12, compared to 50% of non-Indigenous students.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:_U1J65lPIgoJ:www.mceetya.edu.au/verve/_resources/educationofteachersinecs

In 2004, 5229 non-indigenous students completed year twelve (matric) but only 26 Indigenous [Aboriginal] students completed year 12 in Western Australia [out of a total Aboriginal pop. of 66,000] and only 10 of those had a TER greater than 66. [less than 1 quarter of one percent].

www.dest.gov.au/sectors/indigenous_education/publications_resources/abstudy/documents/13_x4_pdf.htm

http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/indg_overview.html

No statistics for the number of qualified teachers there are in Aboriginal schools but if they are all qualified it doesn’t say much for the education they are provided with in Australia, does it?

Other Australian statistics:

During this time [since the Royal Commission], incarceration rates for women have increased. Incarcerated sentenced men have increased from 12,429 in 1991 to 20,960 in 2001. A 68.7% increase. Sentenced women increased from 607 to 1,498, an increase of 147% from 1991. In 1991, women represented 5 per cent of the proportion of all Australian prisoners. In 2001, this proportion had increased to 7 percent.

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/Social_Justice/sjreport_02/chapter5.html
Posted by ramir, Sunday, 11 February 2007 2:38:20 PM
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The Palestian and Jewish conflict is the perfect example of how multiculturalism will not work when you have two big tribes hellbent on control of the land. Why do all these multiculturalism supporters out there not see this when its staring them in the face.
Posted by sharkfin, Sunday, 11 February 2007 2:51:50 PM
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Keith, cc: Ramir

Avowed zionist… avowed zionist… avowed aim. Get an avowed life! Support for a people’s right to self-determination and sovereign independence in their homeland is not a crime, and many consider it a matter of protecting human rights. Keith, are your own arguments so weak that you now have to tell other people (Danny in this case) what they supposedly believe ("his avowed aim is to dispossess the Palestinian people of all their lands")? Do you also permit me to tell you what is your "avowed aim"?

And no, Ramir’s argument about nuclear arms would not “backfire”. One is only responsible for keeping treaties that one ratifies.

The Mandate for Palestine is not from 1948, but from 1920. Ramir is correct that Israel exists on about 17% of the originally mandated territory.

Keith: “of course you’d shudder…”

See Benny Morris’s analysis of this half-manufactured quote at http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/000805.html , “Hari quotes…”

Ramir did a good job of destroying your attempt to compare indigenous Australians to Bedouin and other Arab Israelis.

Keith: “Try some % as a comparison.”

I didn’t understand your point, but if your numbers are correct, indigenous Australians are ~2% of Australia’s population, Bedouin are ~2% of Israel’s population, and Arabs in general are ~20% of Israel’s population. You are comparing apples to oranges, but never mind.

For more about this, see my message starting at “A meaningful discussion comparing Australia and Israel” at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4648 , as well as its continuation in the following message.

Keith, much of your information about Bedouin Israelis is simply wrong – too much to discuss right now. You get the statistics badly wrong, for example quoting 60,000 and 600 acres, when the source for your misstatements mentions the equivalent of 3,150,000 and 60,000 acres. No one who has any real experience in the Negev could possibly think that the Bedouin exist on 600 acres!

By the way, Danny's article was specifically about Palestinian terrorism. In this context, the important, serious issue of the economic and social conditions of Arab Israelis is clearly "ignoratio elenchi", also known as a red herring.
Posted by sganot, Sunday, 11 February 2007 3:42:09 PM
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Yet more Zionist crud. If Zionist controlled Israel has one thing they're known for, it's breaking ceasefires and cowardly killing innocent people.

The native desert people in Israel who have fought alongside Jews in the military and put money to Israel's economy are now being victimised for being what they are. They are not muslim but of old earthly ways yet the Israeli governments has forced them into huts without water, sewage and power. They aren't allowed employment and their kids aren't allowed an education unless they live by Jewish values.

Remember that in Israel, only Jews are allowed to move out to the desert now, nobody else. So don't give us that we Zionists are wonderful people. Before you lot took control of the media, we knew about Jewish suicide bombers.

Time to take out the trash!
Posted by Spider, Sunday, 11 February 2007 6:10:30 PM
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