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The Forum > Article Comments > Australian Muslims need leadership > Comments

Australian Muslims need leadership : Comments

By Syed Atiq ul Hassan, published 23/1/2007

It is time Australian Muslims unified as a community with responsible leaders who can competently lead the community in the right direction.

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Malik Hits Bottom, Digs.
Had I been alive in the times of your somewhat inaccurate rant, I would have been just as critical about slavery then, as I am now of Islam. Perhaps you should also be critical of your own "grant grant parents".
"Little knowledge is dangerous…. " Is that a threat?
The Arab slave-trade in black African slaves began centuries earlier than the Western slave-trade, and lasted centuries later. Indeed, it lasts up to now, in Mauritania, Mali, and Sudan, and even in Arabia. It was suppressed by the British in the late 19th century, through force and the threat of arms.
There is no Muslim Anti-Slavery Society. Slavery is compatible with both Qur'an and Sunna. That is a problem for Muslims. It would be interesting to see just how they explain -- with the usual taqiyya and tu quoque -- this matter. Possibly the "tu quoque" (you do it too) line of defense will point to how recently, in Western history, slavery was abolished -- barely 150 years ago.
Slavery was outlawed in Saudi Arabia officially only in 1962, and only because of Western pressure.
Of course, the Muslims also raided Western Europe, Persia and India for slaves. Muslim slave raiders also ventured into Eastern Europe, including the territories of the Slavs (Slaves), seeking more slaves. Finally, women were seized from Georgia and Circassia to fill the harems as sex-slaves.
Why should one be surprised at the existence of slavery under Islam? Slavery is part of Islam. The Qur'an, Hadith and Sira refer to slaves and slavery. If it was part of 7th century Arabia, it is part of the Sunna, and is sanctioned by Allah and by Mohammed. What more do you want? In order to denounce it as an offense, one would be attacking Mohammed, or Islam. In order to denounce it, one would be suggesting that Mohammed was not, in what he encouraged, the perfect man for all time. One would be hinting that the Sunna is not the perfect way of life for all time.
Continued
Posted by Skid Marx, Friday, 26 January 2007 8:52:43 AM
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The Muslim slave trade in East Africa:
That trade had supplied black slaves for many uses, but particularly sought were male children who were castrated on sight where they were seized. Those who survived the primitive operation (with of course no anaesthetic) were then taken by slave coffle from the interior and marched either all the way up to the Muslim slave-markets of Egypt and North Africa from Tripolitania to Mauritania, or taken by dhow to the coast, often to Muscat, and from there to the slave-markets of Arabia, Riyadh and Damascus, Baghdad, Cairo, even as far as Constantinople and Smyrna. It has been calculated that the mortality rate due to the castration and subsequent forced marches, ended with barely 10% of those initially taken actually managing to reach those slave markets alive.
As the Mauritanian government itself acknowledges, the practice is still alive and well today. It is estimated that 200,000 men, women, and children are subject to being bought and sold like so many cattle in Mauritania, toiling as domestics, shepherds, and farmhands.
Today Muslims continue to show their contempt and hatred for blacks, not only in the enslavement of black Africans by Arabs in Mali and Mauritania, but by the Libyan mobs that attacked black African students and lynched a black diplomat a few years ago; by the Moroccans who have been known to deal with black African migrant workers by taking them and dropping them in the middle of the desert with no possible way of survival; and of course by the behavior of that member in good standing of the Arab League, the government of the Sudan, which over 20 years, killed or starved to death nearly 2 million black Africans in the southern Sudan. Now they have extended their genocidal campaign to fellow Muslims in Darfur -- fellow Muslims, but black Africans, and so dispensable. As the Egyptian Zaki Badawi recently said, "they were not real Muslims." And that was the end of his comment -- apparently that was enough for him to lose any interest in their being victims of mass murder.
Posted by Skid Marx, Friday, 26 January 2007 8:54:56 AM
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Dear Amel;

Please don’t exploit my comments… I never used the word ‘White’ and I don’t believe on black, white, yellow or brown divisions… I am not racist nor anti-religion… I equally respect other religion including Christianity, Judaism, Budhism ….

My reply using ‘Your forefathers’ or ‘your grant grant parents’ for only those who are posting anti-Islam, anti-Muslim comments here… if you notice honestly… does’n’t matter whatever the topic, whatever the debate… these few biased idiots turned the entire debate on Anti-Islam and Anit-Muslim ism…. They are real exploiters of this forum… I don’t understand how the management of this forum allows them to abuse Prophet and holy books of a global religion… basically these guys don’t have any faith… I never abuse the leaders, founders and prophets of any religion…. And I am not against any colour people… in fact I have friends from every colour, religion and race….

Whatever Skid wrote is just a piece of rubbish and his own mind creation… this guy is really fanatic and crazy….they are the real cancer of today’s society..
Posted by Malik, Saturday, 27 January 2007 9:41:35 AM
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Malik “‘Your forefathers’ or ‘your grant grant parents’ for only those who are posting anti-Islam, anti-Muslim comments here . . .

these few biased idiots turned the entire debate on Anti-Islam and Anit-Muslim ism…. They are real exploiters of this forum . . .

I don’t understand how the management of this forum allows them to abuse Prophet and holy books of a global religion”

How subtle and pointed at me.

Firstly, I am not anti-Muslim, merely anti the rhetoric which small minded Muslim individuals both posting here or claiming to be and acclaimed as a leader by the Muslim community.

I said originally, “If Muslims want to be Accepted in Australia, I would sincerely suggest, as the new-comer, the obligation is first for Muslims to Accept Australia.”

I stand by that statement. It is not a racist and would apply equally to any other minority in any other country.

As for “abuse Prophet and holy book of a global religion”.

I would note the “management of this forum” make writers responsible for their posts by exercising a right to edit inflammatory posts and even suspending posters when they feel it appropriate.

But I guess the management of this forum place secular values of “tolerance” and “freedom of speech” above “religion”,

And rightly so. We do live in a secular society.

So do not bother to carry on like a pork chop about respecting Allah or Mohammed and I will not go on at you about Baptism or Mass on Sundays.

If you think I am abusing your mystic belief in a God, then tough. Get over it or suffer.

Your buddy, Halaly has abused the crap out of the majority of Australians with his “Uncovered Meat” and other comments. Better he stays in Egypt and becomes a TV celebrity, than he bothers to come back here.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 27 January 2007 10:21:43 AM
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Malik wrote:

"Please don’t exploit my comments… I never used the word ‘White’ and I don’t believe on black, white, yellow or brown divisions… I am not racist nor anti-religion… I equally respect other religion including Christianity, Judaism, Budhism."

I was just asking a question,not trying to exploit your comments.
Posted by Amel, Saturday, 27 January 2007 10:50:54 AM
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Col;
Your conflicting comments prove that you are confuse person.. Does your secular values or freedom of speech means to abuse other religion and faith… who are you to suggest Muslims what they have to do to be Australian…. I believe majority of Muslims in this country love Australia more than you… you claim yourself as a secular minded person, I think you need basic education on secularism and you need to open your mind and sit with knowledgeable people who can teach you what respect is … you should go back and read what have you written against Prophet Mohammad, Islam and Muslim and see your secular face in the mirror before claiming anything further
Posted by Malik, Saturday, 27 January 2007 8:58:07 PM
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