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The Forum > Article Comments > Floating on a sea of sadness > Comments

Floating on a sea of sadness : Comments

By Conrad Gershevitch, published 31/10/2005

Conrad Gershevitch argues it is loss of community, cultural degradation and lack of social capital that causes much depression.

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Funny how a topic such as depression is channelled towards the pet themes of our socialist wacko's: asylum seekers and subsequent xenophobia.

The "cultural dimensions" of depression in our society I think, is the excess of choice. Or excess in general. In our culture, we are taught to live for the moment, and live life to the max. When people don't, they feel 'depressed'. I think this culture of live life to the 'max' adds unnecessary stress to peoples lives, and creates unrealistic expectations that can't be fulfilled. We can thank media and marketing for this.

The refugee industry transplanting people from one corner of the world into a completely alien culture does'nt help, if we are to drift back to Gershevitch's pet topic..
Posted by davo, Monday, 31 October 2005 4:56:29 PM
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Part 1

Many people write about problems refugees/asylum seekers/overstayers/detainees have but I have yet to find anyone who really is willing to be open minded and actually does something that could have prevented so much undue harm.

Below are quotations of correspondences where I requested the Commonwealth Ombudsman to investigate what was being done by the Australian Electoral Commission as to ascertain which person held in detention was entitled to vote. Likewise, about people being held unconstitutional.
QUOTE 7-9-2002 CORRESPONDENCE
And, when the AEC actually check with any if they had the right to be an elector?

After all, if they are kept away from the media and lawyers, how can the AEC do otherwise but check if they are entitled to be an elector?

As citizenship of a State might vary, and some people might be kept for many years in Detention (unconstitutionally) then effectively they are perhaps in some States to be held citizens and so entitled to citizenship of the Commonwealth, by this have a right to vote.

Clearly, the AEC seems to neglect this and seems to be bias to rely upon whatever political propaganda a government of the day might profess, rather then to actually check the status of each inmate to their qualifications to vote.

If those kept in detention and forced to return to their native country turnout caused to do so by the long term unconstitutional detention then clearly we have another ball game on out of hand, so to say. We would have to have them all returned and given a decent assessment based upon what is truly a “citizen” as known in each State!
END QUOTE 7-9-2002 CORRESPONDENCE

In response in reference to 2002-1864507 the letter received dated 23 September 2002 of David Young, Senior Investigator Officer, stated;

“After examining the material, which you provided, I can find nothing that I can recognise as a complaint that might be investigated by this Office.”
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Monday, 31 October 2005 9:19:13 PM
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Part 2

What is the use of having a Commonwealth Ombudsman if his office assumes the guilt of people and refuse to investigate where his very duty is to do so.
It was not like that he already had investigated previously if someone held in detention was wrongfully denied by the Australian Electoral Commission the ability to vote!
Like wise the Joint Select Committee on Electoral matters (JSCEM) refused to investigate.

If they had a right to vote, they had a right to be a candidate.
Would be something if a candidate had stood while detained in a Commonwealth Detention Centre to be deported even so lawfully in the Commonwealth of Australia!

I am concerned about the mental health of anyone. Not just those held in detention but those purporting to help them (including the lawyers) and who are so closed minded that common sense doesn't get through to them! They are a part of the problems!
My book INSPECTOR-RIKATI® on CITIZENSHIP
A book on CD about Australians unduly harmed.
ISBN 0-9580569-6-X

Published on 30 September 2003 did extensively set out what is wrong with the detention system, yet I have to see one lawyer using the material

I wonder, would it be too easy to stop the rot and then they will have fewer earnings?

My website www.schorel-hlavka.com also deals with matters.

If you are having problems to sleep, then perhaps you might use the time to read my material and work to stop this rot and you might get yourself better sleep in the future.

As my books make clear, without “JUDICIAL DETERMINATION” by a State Court any detention/deportation is unconstitutional/illegal!

It is as simple as that!

Those Australians who support detention may just discover one day that they too can be detained using the same tactic, and then it makes no difference if they are Australian nationals or not, as they approved the concept of it and cannot complaint afterwards that is it unconstitutional/illegal.
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Monday, 31 October 2005 9:20:47 PM
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I have found that the most effective way to feel depressed is to repeatedly ask myself the question "why do I feel so depressed?".

Once I realised how effective this question was at inducing and maintaining a state of depression I vanquished the question. I now don't allow myself to ask or dwell on that question. Instead I ask better questions such as "what must I do next?".

The problem with the brain is it seeks to answer the questions we ask ourselves. So when I used to ask myself "why do I feel so depressed?" my brain was very effective at generating a multitude of reasons. None of which would help to improve my mood.
Posted by Terje, Monday, 31 October 2005 9:25:01 PM
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"I've been feeling a bit depressed lately." - writes Conrad Gershevitch.

My goodness gracious me, I'm not surprised.

What I can't understand is why anyone would ever actually ask this man to write an article. Yet, it seems that the good people who run this site did exactly that!

Were they depressed at the time too?

Let me tell you folks, that by the time I got to about word 378 (of this less than 1500 word) article, I too was depressed.

Never before in my life have I ever read a more depressing article. By the time I got to word 413 I was about to lose it - so I stopped reading. I just couldn't go an any more. That was it. I had to stop. And I still don't know what the article was all about.

Why would anyone ever ask this person to write? Especially about depression? What can I say? Are they masochists? Unbelievable!

The entire thing is just all too depressing.

Does anyone know a good joke?
Posted by Maximus, Monday, 31 October 2005 11:36:24 PM
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Thank you Conrad for a pleasing article. "Mualagh" - "floating in a sea of darkness". Love it. Sometimes I put on Radiohead so I can feel sad. It can be good to get in touch with those inner feelings. Sometimes when I am feeling depressed because of the ways of the world I think of how it must feel to be clinically depressed - more like "drowning" in a sea of darkness.

Here is a Charles Simic poem that some posters may appreciate.

MY WEARINESS OF EPIC PROPORTIONS
Charles Simic

I like it when
Achilles
Gets killed
And even his buddy Patroculus-
And that hothead Hector-
Jeunesse doree
Is more or less
Expertly slaughtered
So there’s finally
Peace and quiet
(The gods having momentarily
Shut up)
One can hear
A bird sing
And a daughter ask her mother
Whether she can go to the well
And of course she can
By that lovely little path
That winds through
The olive orchard
_

Arrrrh. That is beter. Cheers.
Posted by rancitas, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 1:38:55 AM
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My mother could posibly be described as an Australian internal refugee. She had a miserable life. As an unmarried mother at a time when the unmarried mother's pension did not exist, she was forced to work at whatever low paying job she could obtain to keep herself and her baby.

This meant working as a cook on sheep stations or as a waitress or usherette earning a wage two thirds of what a man would recieve for doing the same job. By the time I was 11, I was sleeeping in the same bed as my mother in a singe, bed bug infested bed in a rented room. It was at that point that mother was assessed by the Housing Commission as a person "most in need." But she still had to wait six years to get a HC flat.

It was there that I discovered that immigrants only had to wait 2 years to get a HC flat. I have been a trenchant critic of immigration and Asylum shoppers ever since.

I do not give a damn how "depressed" the writer of this article is or how "depressed" asylum shoppers are. I note the high levels of welfare dependency and criminal behaviour by some "refugee" groups hardly makes them ideal citizens and their presence in this country is inimical to the interests of Australians. In Australia, the welfare of Australians comes first. The welfare of ones own people is the highest morality.
Posted by redneck, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 3:23:02 AM
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Thanks Conrad for a sensitive and sensible article. I've often thought that, given the state of the world, depression is a natural reaction by increasingly alienated individuals when deprived of any sense of security, community and individual agency by rapid sociocultural and technological change, environmental degradation, displacement and the fragmentation of sovereignty under politico-economic globalisation.

It's interesting to compare the strategies that people use to cope with these depressive forces, as reflected in the statements made by commentators in this forum. Some would evidently rather not think about the mess the world's in, preferring to simply think about other things or to ridicule those who seek causes for pathological responses by many to an increasingly alienating world.

Others seem to project their alienation onto those who are culturally different from them. In their hateful and vituperous statements we can see expression of deep-seated anger and resentment directed towards convenient scapegoats that they classify as 'aliens'. One doesn't need to have a Freudian orientation to connect childhood deprivation and maternal fixation with adult sociopathy.

Of course, the rise in religious fundamentalism of all persuasions is also a global response by alienated individuals to the dehumanising processes that have increasingly accompanied politico-economic globalisation. We see plenty of evidence of this particular malaise in these forums, where religious extremists attempt to demonise others who - somewhat ironically - subscribe to different forms of religious fundamentalism to their own.

IMHO, anti-Western terrorism may also be viewed as an extreme expression of the same alienation. To put it another way, the sociopathology of the suicide bomber can be traced to exactly the same kinds of alienating forces as can the sociopathology of xenophobia, racism or Christian fundamentalism, or the 'I'm alright Jack' approach of those who dismiss misfortune in others.

Although it can be both instructive and entertaining to read these kinds of ultimately pathological statements, I find them far more depressing than the kind of perceptive and sensitive analysis found in an article such as Gershevitch's.
Posted by mahatma duck, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 8:45:32 AM
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Conrad, perhaps if you took an aspirin and have a little nap! Or a good swig of whisky or a six pack. Turn your TV only to the funnies, read the comics in the paper and throw away the rest, you will feel much better.
And best of all, do some gardening and thank Himself for this wonderful world.
But please do not screw your head up with misery.
Posted by mickijo, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 2:06:36 PM
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Depression is a health crisis that is experienced by one in four teenagers. More money definately needs to be spent on the mental health system.
Posted by jackass, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 2:28:48 PM
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Keep making excuses for religious terrorism, Mahatma Sitting Duck, it does the redneck cause an immense amount of good with the public.

And keep sticking up for every ethnic group in the world except the ones who have led the world to an age of prosperity and democracy, and who's culture has become a model for success.

Don't forget to announce to all and sundry that any person from anywhere has a basic human right to barge into Australia whenever they want to. This will win the Liberal Party masses of votes. Where would John Howard be without Conrad (Comrade?) Gershevitch, Mahatma Sitting Duck, Scooper9, David Latimer and The Usual Suspect doing all of his electoral campaigning for him?
Posted by redneck, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 7:20:20 PM
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I find Mahatna Dick's post extremely depressing.

Perhaps s/he expresses a sense of alienation from his/her society by supporting those who seek to harm us. Some kind of masochistic tendency there.

In a word Dick - depressing.
Posted by davo, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 8:41:33 PM
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The world has always been filled with human tragedies,but with science and technology many humans are far better off than the cave folk or the Bubonic Plague sufferers.

Our major problem is that the world is over populated.Perhaps disease will solve this problem since humans seem incapable of addressing it.Even if half the world's pop dies,life will go on.It is no use in stressing about a nuclear holocaust,or a space asteroid destroying us. We all will die one day anyway.

Too often we can lassiviate in our negative thoughts since it is easier not to act than do something positive.

While there are people with real depression problems,many of us can solve it by getting on with life.It isn't going to get better just worrying about it.A good dose of survival can cure many of us in a negative frame of mind
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 10:23:41 PM
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QUOTE: Depression is a health crisis that is experienced by one in four teenagers. More money definately needs to be spent on the mental health system.

RESPONSE: Your public commitment to give more money to this cause is most noble. You can fufill your public pledge at the following link: http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=11

Once again thankyou for your generosity. And if you feel that enough money still has not been given you can visit the website a second time and donate again: http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=11
Posted by Terje, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 11:23:23 PM
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Thanks Redneck for the apology for including me with you list of targets. Seeing as though i have been mentioned on this forum, I may as well add my two cents worth.

Depression is just one of those things which people like to have. almost a trendy illness to say you have something wrong with you. It probably relates to the pessimistic nature in a lot of people.

"Medicine has all but eliminated TB, polio, small pox, I'm not getting sick anymore, surely I can't be that healthy, Oh that's right, I'm depressed."

I agree with Terje, too many people think themselves into depression. They should do something constructive with their time like playing sport or learn ballroom dancing. (don't barrack for Souths or Richmond though, that is a sure way to increase depression).

In a way, I blame the unions. When people were working 70 hour weeks, there was no time to be depressed.

How about all these well-off people who feel depressed use their spare time volunteering for charity, where they meet people who could truly have a reason for being depressed but are always grateful for what they have got.

I'd recommend a stint doing meals on wheels and seeing the smiles on the old duck's faces when you give them a plate of hot soup on a cold day. Brightens you up I can tell you and makes you feel more than pleased with what you have got.

t.u.s
Posted by the usual suspect, Wednesday, 2 November 2005 11:14:10 AM
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I was heavily campaigning against Jeff Kennett the Premier of Victoria, but can only congratulate him for what he is doing with BeyondBlue.

Some people are stronger then others, and we all react different to a crisis.

At times, people calling me when they are in a crisis then often they make known (after a lengthy conversation) that after all their life isn’t that bad. Not because I tell them so, but because when I explain problems of others they realize for themselves they have it better then they had been aware off.

That why I maintain that to “LISTEN” to another person may be more important then to give our money.

People generally need someone to talk to, and who listen, and when they talk, and talk, and talk. (Mind you one person contemplating suicide called at 9.30 pm, and continued till about 6 am, the next morning, calling notably long distance! And, weeks later, when this person received the phone bill, he phoned me, and made clear that it was the best way he ever had spend his money! No, it was not some 1900 or 1902 number, as I use only ordinary phone connections, without receiving a cent out of it.)

Next time you see some poor person sleeping on a bench or in the park you could consider to ask the person if he/she would like to join you for a cup of coffee or meal (at your cost of course).
You might just find that, even if they refuse it, at least you tried to do the right thing.

Just keep in mind that no matter what your current financial status might be, beyond your fault you could be one of them in a short time, as we all face this unpleasant future pending what crooks may use as their weapons to achieve this.
If just we showed we cared for others, we by this already would reduce “depression” by many as they would be aware that they are still part of our society and not have to feel abandoned.

Just try it
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Wednesday, 2 November 2005 2:58:02 PM
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To Mr Terje.

If one in four Australian teenagers has depression then I suspect it is because of their high ingestion rate of controlled substances. The link between routine drug abuse and "depression", especially with marijuana, is common knowledge.

Instead of asking responsible people to chip in money to fund programs to mitigate the detrimental effects of drug abuse, why don't you campaign to stop drug abuse by teenagers? Attack the cause, don't ask me to finance the cure.

The promotion of drug abuse by "Youth culture" leaders has got to stop. If we as a nation can understand that allowing tobacco companies to advertise their wares will condemn hundreds of thousands of teenagers and adolescents to partake in a dangerous and highly addictive drug, why can we not make the same connection with pop stars endorsing drugs abuse?
Posted by redneck, Thursday, 3 November 2005 3:55:09 AM
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Conrad,
Superb, compassionate and moving article, rather wasted, it seems on some of its readers.
For people who have never experienced depression, or dislocation, I suppose it is understandable to take that brisk, pull-your-wanky-socks-up tone, but it is utterly useless. Depression takes you over, like grief, when I suffered it (in my 20s), I would have given anything to be able to pull-my-socks-up, but, while I functioned on the outside, it was in a grey and empty world. I found no joy in anything. A counsellor helped me, a husband who loved me helped me but it wasn't until I began to understand that I was taking my own energy that was being unused in the outside world and turning it against myself, that I started to improve. Now, I monitor my feelings more closely, if I start to feel low, its important to increase the things that occupy and challenge me. When I start to feel anxious, its time to decrease them.
Now, I am depressed by the society I find myself in, its lack of compassion, its veneration of winners and hatred of losers, but that is a different kind of depression. It doesn't deplete me, it energises me. Hate something, change something. Psychological depression is when you hate yourself, and that is what you've got to change, but, sometimes, particularly when you are depressed, that seems harder than changing the world.
Posted by enaj, Thursday, 3 November 2005 10:51:37 AM
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Conrad I came across this little piece while cleaning out hundreds of similar pieces and immediately thought of you. This is [so it said] was written by Michael Leunig.

Each year my mirror seems much older
Somewhat duller and a fraction colder
The glass which always gleamed and twinkled
Now appears all scratched and wrinkled
Appears more blotchy, tired and droopy
Confused and haggard,tired and loopy
Sadder, slower,grimmer, glummer
I think that I've been sold a bummer.

There now, feeling better?
Posted by mickijo, Thursday, 3 November 2005 2:59:37 PM
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Mr Duck – my hat is off to you.

You first paragraph hit every point I could think of regarding what is occurring in this world that is driving most people to depression – or to rail against it in various anti-social or intolerant ways.

I would find it funny that the ones who criticise and outright vilify those of ‘other’ kinds behave so for generally the same root causes as those they attack…. but I am too depressed too….

Well, time for a rerun of the Goodies... perhaps that will fix it!
Posted by Reason, Thursday, 3 November 2005 11:21:59 PM
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I have a brief story to tell. It’s of a work colleague who became a good friend.

“George” joined my workplace about 1991. He was intelligent, chirpy, and happily married. I was a guest in his home on many cheerful occasions. He was well-liked, and became active in workplace union affairs.

But George had a history, unknown to his colleagues. He had a form of bipolar disease, and at long intervals (years) this would come upon him. It was, of course, the stigma attaching to mental illness which led him to keep his history quiet. As far I knew, George was as “sane” as the next person.

Therefore I was shocked when, having known him for three or four years, over the space of just a few days he succumbed to his illness. I stuck by him, as did other friends, despite increasingly bizarre, even hurtful, behaviour. Eventually he was involuntarily confined in the psychiatric ward at the local hospital. They brought him “down”, but not back to health. He was released, but fell into a deep depression. Contemplating the hurtful, foolish (and expensive) things he had done, he feared that, even if he rebuilt his life, his illness would recur and all would be ruined again.

He was again hospitalised, this time voluntarily, and after a time released. He was certified fit to return to work, but it was clear to friends and colleagues there that he was far from fit. His depression at this time was truly terrible.

One Monday he didn’t come to work. Then the phone call came: he had stayed home, waited till everyone else had left, and committed suicide.

So my questions to the experts and pundits. Why did my friend die? He had a life-threatening illness just as surely as if it was heart disease, but was released from hospital anyway. What sort of a system is that that allows people like George, who if properly treated could be alive today, to fall by the wayside? He was thrown away, and it killed him.

Would somebody please explain this to me?
Posted by Mhoram, Friday, 4 November 2005 5:23:51 AM
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Part of the problem was de-institutionalising mental health. I am not advocating a return to the mental asylum culture, but there needs to be dedicated facilities - not hospitals and not jails - which deal with mentally ill.

And this case Mhoram was a case of depression caused by bi-polar, it is not the same depression as one in four teenagers who feel they are not happy.

Focussing on sadness or unhappiness, as opposed to genuine mental illness, takes money and focus from people with real mental illness.

t.u.s.
Posted by the usual suspect, Friday, 4 November 2005 2:42:24 PM
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I wish some one would tell teenagers that ALL the weird, whacky gamut of emotions they are undergoing are perfectly natural and are part of the growing up process. One day they can be naturally as high as a kite and the next day, totally down in the pits.
If they understood that this is mostly caused by hormones, is natural and will settle in due time, they may accept it all as part of life.
I just wish it had been explained to me many years ago.
Posted by mickijo, Friday, 4 November 2005 3:41:41 PM
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