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The Forum > Article Comments > So this is Christmas … > Comments

So this is Christmas … : Comments

By Helen Dale, published 3/1/2007

Christmas is a venerable pagan festival, on a sort of permanent loan from Ancient Rome. Best Blogs 2006.

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I see that some dolt has decided to complain about Helen Dale's name. I see that he thinks she has done something quite awful. No doubt he is correct! Would you believe that she Helen Dale has actually adopted her husband's surname when she married. Now who has ever heard of such a scandalous thing?
Posted by Fred Thornett, Wednesday, 3 January 2007 5:08:30 PM
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Those petulant persons who express their dissatisfaction with this article by trying to shoot the messenger need to lighten up. Or to read more. As any classicist, historian, widely-read person - and probably the writer herself - could tell you the ancient world abounded with December 25th celebrations.Osiris, whose worship has been traced back to the Neolithic but was the Main Man for the Egyptians, was given a birthday on December 25th (Btw. his titles included King of Kings, Lord of Lords and, in reference to a passage wherein he led his followers to "green pastures" through the "valley of the shadow of death", The Good Shepherd). The birthday celebrations of Greek Dionysis, whose followers honoured his flesh and blood by eating bread and drinking wine,was also December 25th. Persian Attis - who was crucified on a tree on "Black Friday" and rose from the dead 3 days later in March/April was also allotted the December 25th birthdate. Perhaps Helen refrained from explaining that the birth of Mithras (for whom Saturnalia was celebrated) on December 25 was supposedly attended by shepherds and gift-carrying Magi while he and his 12 "disciples" celebrated a last supper before he ascended to the heavens on March 21 because she thought you'd all put out death-threats to her.

These are arcane but interesting pieces of our collective heritage and getting your knickers in a twist over them doesn't change them. Besides - this article appeared in the "Best of.." blog so the poor woman has probably already endured all this hoo-ha the first time it appeared in OLO. My personal feeling is thankfullness that, from time long past until now humanity has allotted a period where those who wish to can join together in love, friendship and equality at least once in every year.
Posted by Romany, Wednesday, 3 January 2007 7:47:19 PM
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I always thought that the joke in the Demidenko "scandal" was on the judges of the Miles Franklin. When I studied English literature we were taught that the book was a thing which stood on its own feet. A bad author could write a good book, and vice-versa, and the author's view of what was in the book was no better than anyone else's. To think otherwise is called "the intentional fallacy". Ditto for Helen's essay on Christmas.

BTW, we do have an acknowledgement that the poem was translated by Helen, so authors even miss things that editors don't.

I've no idea why this essay has provoked both Christian and anti-Christian alike. Most of what Helen has is not new information to me, although a fair bit is as well. You couldn't be a serious Christian and unaware of the general gist of the article, and able to live with the fact that the church has from time to time borrowed dates and practices. No big deal. It would be a pretty strange organisation if it hadn't changed and evolved over 2,000 years. But then, it would be a lot easier to attack!
Posted by GrahamY, Wednesday, 3 January 2007 7:55:23 PM
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I'm posting this on behalf of Skeptic Lawyer aka Helen Dale. She's run out of posts, and in the seasonal spirit I'm gifting her one of mine, particular as relying on my memory means my post above is misleading. I thought the prize had been rescinded, but it wasn't hence the judges did the right thing. Anyway, this is is what Helen says:

"I wanted to point out that the piece didn't run in OLO first time around, it ran on a blog - this is the first time OLO have seen it (and no, Catallaxians were fine - we're a pretty open-minded bunch) and also to point out that the MF judges knew the deal - they judged my book on its merits, and refused to change their minds once my cover was 'blown'. For which I am grateful - it was worth a decent amount of cash at the time, allowing me to travel and do a lot of other stuff that I could otherwise never have done (some of us don't have filthy rich parents). If anyone finished up looking like a bunch of dipsticks, it was Robert Manne and friends (I was one of the two reasons I'm told he got booted as editor of Quadrant) and some of the more absurd proponents of multiculturalism, who seemed to think that an author's writing ability was linked to their ethnicity."
Posted by GrahamY, Wednesday, 3 January 2007 9:41:46 PM
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Hey, under the idea of deconstructionism and post-modernism the 'death of the author' was a much touted concept by many, except of course those authors who still wanted credit and some hard earned royalties.

One cannot judge a book by its cover - or by its author for goodness sake: I remember in a particular post-modern sociology course (it would have to be sociology..) being presented with Proust's soggy cakes (the infamous Madeleine's) , as part of a sentence which spanned a whole page, as an illustration of memory (Remembrance of Things Past - as if his was unique - like every time I smell freshly mowed grass it brings back memories of football on Sunday mornings- but I won't write a book about it).

If I had written any of my essay's in the way that Proust wrote I would have failed that subject entirely and rightfully!

In the same subject the lecturer stated, sincerely, that if you see a group of children playing with a ball you have to ask if the children are playing with the ball, or the ball with the children? (Poleeese! What about human agency?)

Who cares who writes a piece of work, so long as it can be justified by argument and reference if non fiction, or by 'common sense' and enjoyment if fiction?

So I read the article that started this thread without knowledge of 'who she was' and I didn't really care: it was her words that mattered. It was only after I read comments that I found out 'who' wrote the piece, and the piece stands or falls on its own, whoever the author is or isn't and whatever blog it has called out from to the world.

Helen I work with Judges' Associates every day, and have done so for about eight years now. I want to state here, publicly, how much admiration that I have for the unsung work that Judge's Associates do.

Enuff of my rant : Helen, please keep writing: please keep posting.
Posted by Hamlet, Wednesday, 3 January 2007 11:03:18 PM
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Interesting article.

I haven't read my Bible sunce I was abot 14 years of age. I will re-read and have a big think.

Cheers
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Thursday, 4 January 2007 1:24:14 AM
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