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The Forum > Article Comments > 'You should always highly obey your husband' > Comments

'You should always highly obey your husband' : Comments

By Alanta Colley, published 19/12/2006

Where does gender equality fit on the road to Cambodia’s development?

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aqvarivs, I agree that social change has been complex just as the reasons behind historical conventions and structures are complex. Too often various "ism's" have tried to simplify their concerns down to easily accepted catch cries and causes. In the case of feminism I think the idea of male privilege has often been overstated (or just plain wrong), likewise I'm convinced that many feminists have been extroardinarily wrong about family violence. The book I refered to earlier in the discussion (Self Made Man) was in part interesting because of the authors observations about male privilege (and how little most of us have of it).

That does not necessarily make some of the inequities that the ism's are addressing irrelevant but it can lead to excesses in attempting to redress wrongs. It does not help when you have others attempting to justify the continuation of the inequity for pretty much the reasons claimed by the 'ism', for example god botherers wanting wives to 'highly obey their husbands' because it's gods plan.

There have been aspects of traditional inequities which have worked to keep society functional, I've heard mixed views on the economics of slavery, I suspect that it worked well for slave owners and not so well for slaves or the whites who did not own slaves (bit hard to get a reasonable job when you are competing with slaves).

Some think limiting opportunities for women has social value, I believe that the cost to the women and society of doing so far outweighs any potential benefits. Few men would willingly swap places with the women we they think should be limited in that manner.

Those women who want a hubby to highly obey and who don't want to make adult decisions will probably still find someone to accomodate the desire, the rest should be free to live as responsible adult human beings.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Friday, 22 December 2006 6:02:28 PM
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Very well said, RObert; it's all about freedom.

Aqvarivs,
“It's bunk and it's twisted and it's done to devalue men on the whole.”
If there are feminists who set out to improve things for women to devalue men I do not agree with them.
In fact, I believe that equal relationships benefit both men and women.
Do men in Cambodia only gain power and value by taking these things from women? Partners in an equal relationship do not take value or power away from each other- they make each other’s lives richer and more interesting which adds value.

Informing Cambodian women of their legal rights and helping them to gain more status doesn’t mean it’s a plot to devalue men.
Your wife doesn’t feel discriminated against because she is not being brainwashed into believing that she should blindly obey you and to be your sex slave, neither is she being told that in case of DV she should grin and bear it and shut up about it because it’s a private matter.
It is estimated that one in four Cambodian women are victims of DV.

Why is there trafficking of so many Cambodian girls and women?
Why do women still make up about 70% of the world’s people living in poverty? Even in Australia, the vast majority of poor people are women.
Why are two-thirds of the illiterates women?
Why do twice as many women as men suffer form malnutrition?

It is time for the world to pay attention to women’s issues in Cambodia and promote equality between men and women and speed things up a little.
It’s criminal to do something about the discrimination women face right now?
I don’t agree; it’s criminal not to act because in fact, even though their judicial system is quite dysfunctional, Cambodia does have legislation in place to protect women and children. To disrespect this legislation ’should be’ a criminal offense.
Posted by Celivia, Friday, 22 December 2006 10:12:44 PM
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Celivia
-Cambodian Civil War 1967-1975
-Khmer Rouge Regime 1975-1979
-Vietnamese Invasion and War 1978-1991
-1991 U.N. mandated to enforce the peace and ceasefire, deal with refugees and disarmament.
-Total collapse or destruction of cultural, economic, social and political life of Cambodia.
-corruption is wide spread driven by foreign development companies
-corrupt police force
-corrupt army
-corrupt judiciary
-Cambodia is one of the worlds poorest nations ~75% of the population is involved in subsistence farming.
-illegal logging is robbing the country of millions of badly needed revenue. The environment is suffering with topsoil erosion and flooding becoming prevalent. The spread of aids is another threat.
-life expectancy: Men(52) women (60)
-majority of Cambodians living on less than $2.00/day
-85% of Cambodians don't have access to electricity, fresh water, medicine, schooling, or basic services.

Everybody stand back Celivia and feminism have the answers. No I don't think so and it's not that I hate women, au contraire. It's because the last thing Cambodia needs is anything that furthers social division. With ~75% of the population just getting by on subsistence farming, the whole family is necessary to meet that end. If western feminism was actually about social cohesion and working together as a society to make life better for all I'd buy the airfare for people like Celivia to go abroad and do good works. I'd be just as skeptical if it was a Men's only group. I don't like "masculinist" either.
Posted by aqvarivs, Saturday, 23 December 2006 2:50:15 AM
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There is something very wrong with feminism which this article expounds yet again: It springs forth from deciet, not fact, on which a power is established and abused. Numerous examples abound, eg. origin of laws allowing abortion, domestic violence, preferential treatment in work place over men etc.

The feminist mantra is 'equality' but practical effect is power on authority solely in their hands for their own benefit against others, mainly men and children. The result is mass unhappiness of all but the 'feminist' particularly whom have worked their way to the top of power, hold mass money, and direct influence on politics, government and media. I think even women are unhappy jumping to the commands of these...

I have a solution: since the feminist movement is so unhappy with so called 'male domination' of society, then separate out and have your own where the power and authority only extends within it... Leave the rest of us to live our lives as ordinary decent people with our children.

I dont think this will happen...because it bring another fundamental nature of feminism that they are unwilling to expose and talk about, its parasitic in nature...

Sam
Posted by Sam said, Saturday, 23 December 2006 10:26:22 AM
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Aqvarivs, I am not claiming that I (and feminism) have the answers.
I'd love you to pay for my plane ticket but I can't promise miracles ;+)
I don’t really adhere to feminism as such (only when I agree with a specific issue such as this case of discrimination against Cambodian women).
I can see that men are sometimes disadvantaged, too, and I would then be empathic to their problems. (e.g. men not being the natural father of 'their' kid but unknowingly paying for it, or DV against men).

Why should some groups be disadvantaged or ignored or bullied so others can gain from it (may it be power, money, status or whatever it is that they gain)?

Thing is, I am not convinced at all that emancipation of women would dramatically slow down the reconstruction of Cambodia. On the contrary, I agree with princess Norodom Marie Ranarridh, head of the Cambodian delegation, who said at a conference for women back in 1995 that ( http://www.un.org/esa/gopher-data/conf/fwcw/conf/gov/950906204356.txt )

“… the emancipation of women is vital to the socio-economic progress of our nation.

“Our critical areas of concern are:

- remove gender disparities in national education programmes and provide equal opportunities for girls and boys, and women as well as men…

“… we consider it our honour and duty to be able to work for the empowerment of women in Cambodia.”

By looking at different articles, it shows that Cambodian women were ready for emancipation years ago; and the fact that the women want more freedom and equality but are being ignored and brainwashed into believing they should serve a man should be good enough reason to direct some of the available aid towards their causes.
Why use available aid for everything else but women?

I am merely saying that I agree with a point the author makes that women in Cambodia need help and discrimination should not be ignored.

Women’s issues do not need to come last on the priority list; they can stand alongside the other priorities.
Posted by Celivia, Saturday, 23 December 2006 11:09:09 PM
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Celivia said: "Very well said, RObert; it's all about freedom."

Rubbish! If that is so why do Western feminists support female genital mutilation of young girls, or forced marriage of young girls to old Aboriginal men? Of course Western feminism is not about 'freedom', it about power and certain lifestyles for some middle class women.

Western feminists, often ensconced in comfortable careers in academia and the public bureaucracies, claim to represent 'women' however they do not consult with them and may not always work entirely in their interests either.

Western feminists themselves acknowledge there are major irreconcilable differences between feminism (as they understand it) and multiculturalism. This alone should warn them against proselytising their mantras in other countries.

There is a lot of arrogance in presuming to advise people in other cultures as to what is 'best' for them, especially when at home you are supporting, or at least turning a blind eye to, obvious transgressions against the liberty and individual rights of young girls in the name of 'multiculturalism'.
Posted by Cornflower, Sunday, 24 December 2006 12:08:17 AM
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