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The Forum > Article Comments > Our generation’s choice > Comments

Our generation’s choice : Comments

By Andrew Hewett, published 17/11/2006

Overcoming extreme poverty is not simply our generation’s challenge - it is our generation’s choice. This weekend, it is the G-20’s choice.

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Gecko, I have nothing actually to add to what you have said: - except that for those who do live in poverty in Australia it matters not a whit if they are living in the greatest country on earth or the meanest: poverty wears the same face everywhere.

What I wanted to post for however, was simply so I could stand up and be counted as one who agrees wholeheartedly with everything in your post.
Posted by Romany, Monday, 20 November 2006 7:44:56 PM
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Oh I can always tell when someone is trying to promote a barren view, that is a view with no merit, no substance, no solution and obviously no expected or achievable outcome.

It is the view which focuses on faux-compassion, hyperbole and usually a high degree of whine (bit like a jet engine).

When I see words and phrases like

“poverty stems directly from us” – ascribing “blame” to the developed democratic countries, ignoring the corruption and tribalism which infests most underdeveloped nations.

Or

“Small countries …. Locked out of trade relationships“, like Belgium, Luxembourg Or New Zealand maybe or even Australia, with a mere 20 million folk we too are pretty small?

Or

“world poverty is our poverty. We have to own it.” I do not think so, try to help eliminate it, yes, but “own it” certainly not. We can give good example and lead by that example to how a country should be run, for the people and by the people etc.

Or

“no excuse for not attending to the misery we bring onto others.”

Hmmm don’t think so,

Then the hyperbole

“This is mass manslaughter we are talking about, much bigger than Auswitch”

(I think that is supposed to be some version of Auschwitz, although, not the Polish spelling which was ”Oswiecim”).

Ah here is the hyperbole, whenever someone tries to hang a comparison with anything to do with Hitler, concentration camps or the Third Reich, you know they have let sense and reason fall off the tram a long way back.

If I were to suggest suitable comparisons to Aushwitz, it would be Cambodia, under Pol Pot’s Khymer Rouge, a communistic regime. Or maybe Rwanda, ethnic cleansing on a massive scale perpetrated by who? . It could be the Balkans – more ethnic cleansing at the hands of a another failed communist state.

Never at the hands of Democratic Nations.

Democracies these days, through IMF and World Bank are exporting a model of free market development in hand with democracy which works. Not some crackpot third rate socialist mumbo-jumbo and witch–doctory which doesn’t.
Posted by Col Rouge, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 9:52:15 AM
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Right, right, Col Rouge, and the uber-capitalist China is democratic HOW, exactly? By publishing stats on the number of labour activists they execute? Hmm.

What about Argentina, that once-upon-a-poster child for neoliberal reform? Whats that, currency collapse and debt default? Oh, too bad, too bad.

What about Indonesia, once a marvel of low cost manufacturing and tourism? Gutted by the Asian financial crisis (read currency swindle) and undercut by Chinese prison/slave labour? Gosh.

Stay off the claret Col., you're having flashbacks to the 1980s when ppl might have believed such nonsense
Posted by Liam, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 11:38:57 PM
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Liam “Right, right, Col Rouge, and the uber-capitalist China is democratic HOW, exactly?”

Show me where I have ever suggested China represents an example of merit on anything, until then, you are simply showing your ignorance.

Those of us who are grown sufficient to wear long trousers remember China a mere 20 years ago was drowning under the dead weight of Chairman Mao’s communism, as reinforced by his deranged wife (and the other three). China as an example, is only any good when compared to what China was before the current cycle of modernization and free trade. That same free trade which the children of the left would denounce as they run amok in Melbourne trying to incite a Biff with the Police.

I recall Nixon’s visit to China was met with mixed feelings. On reflection, such enterprise was the first step to trade liberalization, which has opened up a country which lived for too long behind a bamboo curtain of repression far worse than that which it practices today. That visit might be considered the pinnacle of an otherwise lamentable presidency.

Argentina is typical of the post Spanish / Portuguese Colonial corruption and repression. I have often wondered if it has something to do with the corrupting influence of the Church of Rome, the same Catholicism which infests Eire, Liam.

As for Indonesia, the victim of its own corruption. There is good evidence to suggest the modern Democracies should re-colonise some of these places, however, I do not see much hope of that in the near future.

As for claret, whilst not an abstainer, I rarely drink wine, and would, if offered, prefer a light and effervescent Lambrusca than some disgusting thick and heavy French plonk.

To your own tastes, if you snippety post is anything to go by, I would suggest you stick to mineral water, anything heavier is sure to rot the remaining brain cells and reading you, it would seem you do not have many of those left to go around.

But I believe in free choice, I leave you to choose your own swill.
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 23 November 2006 12:41:37 AM
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Col Rouge:

My aren't we sensitive (not) and abusive (yes)!

I suggest you spend some time in Africa and see how difficult life is there before you hurl your little snipings at others who make a half rational comment in public. I have worked there, and know EXACTLY how hard life is - especially outside any city or town.

You obviously have no idea how the large global finance (IMF and World Bank) organisations operate. Do you honestly think that they are ther for the benefit of the recipient countries? Duh... the WTO is only TO BENEFIT ITS MEMBERS ! I think you need a good lesson in the economics of global politics (and re-read Liam's post for starters).

About the only thing you said that was correct is that education is partly the solution. Now, perhaps you might have a few constructive suggestions as to how the average African villager might have their children educated if:

1. They don't have enough to eat EVERY day.
2. The local warlord regularly threatens to kill their children if they don't give him all their food/money.
3. The local government school has few, if any resources (I mean paper, books, writing materials).

(All reasonable suggestions will be forwarded to the relevant on-the-ground aid workers).

After you have done considered all of the above, and worked for a few years in regional villages in Africa (with the villagers), you can come back here and tell us about your views on poverty.

Until then do not presume to lecture us with your western, self-righteous claptrap.
Posted by Iluvatar, Thursday, 23 November 2006 7:51:55 PM
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Col Rouge, blaming the victim went out with wife beating, or are you writing from the Liberal Club?

You claim my examples of China, Indonesia and Argentina are not good examples of capitalism due to the failings of their peoples - "too corrupt", "too catholic" (straight out of the bigots handbook of cliches).
So which country is your light on the hill? The US, with millions behind bars and increasing malnutrition? Australia, with its govt-mandated monopoly businesses and routine feather bedding for resource extraction corps ? eg. 150% tax deductability for oil & gas exploration, diesel fuel rebates. Name the exemplar for this neoliberal fantasy, cos i'm sure it exists only in the self-serving fantasies swapped by corpulent white males.

I regret the name calling, but you did start it, implying i was a lefty! Lucky we're not in a pub or i'd have to shirtfront you :) Your pal former US (Republican) President Nixon was a duck squeezing lefty too you know, by current economic fundamentalist standards, reserving more forest in national parks than i believe any other US president since.

On your call for recolonisation, what do you think globalised free trade (at gunpoint) is? Private wealth simply eliminated the administrative class of colonial public servants, instead using the legal fictions of corporations (backed by the fiscal enforcers the IMF & World Bank) and mercenary force (Kroll, Sandline, Group 4, Blackwater, etc all save on transperancy/PR and war widows pensions). That defenders of this neoliberal War on Terra can call themselves Conservatives is foul infamy: they conserve nothing, steal the best and waste the rest, all the while spouting bumf about a rising tide lifting all boats! The 'rising tide' has lifted all yachts, sure.
Posted by Liam, Thursday, 23 November 2006 11:03:27 PM
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