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The Forum > Article Comments > Tax cuts and increased spending don't add up > Comments

Tax cuts and increased spending don't add up : Comments

By Tristan Ewins, published 23/11/2006

Kim Beazley's proposed tax cuts throw nation building ambitions into question.

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“Government monopolies”

Sheltered workshops for the incompetent, through institutions which lack any accountability or commercial transparency. A bunch of bureaucrats holding court over public funds and paying off their mates behind closed doors. I could go on but it only gets worse, like the collapse of Tri-Continental and the 3 billion dollar loss courtesy, the Kirner government.

$1000 for every man woman and child in Victoria, at the time.

I would not waste money like that but then, I was not given a choice.

I would not give a transport company a dollar either, I suggest you read my posts on the public transport thread -

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5052

I do not support subsidizing anyone’s ride to work and never protestors rides to rallies against the work place laws.

Transport companies thrive or fail on their commercial merits, not by sucking the financial marrow out of the rest of us.

“Company tax is so low that the amount of tax before dividends are paid is scandalously low”

What level does “Scandalously“ start at?
What level of tax is “acceptable” and what level is “virtuous”?

Applying “emotion” to tax is stupid. “Tax” is an unavoidable evil. It is there because governments need to fund the basic services, police, security etc.

Tax is not something which can be described as morally “desirable” or “scandalous”; except by those who believe that we individuals, who elect parliamentarians, are incapable of deciding how we should spend our own incomes.

Of course, government monopoly businesses are so inefficient that they cannot generate a profit, so would not qualify to pay tax anyway, except water services.

The Brack’s government has sucked $100 million per year out of the water rates paid by Melbourne water users as a “special dividend” instead of the water companies (check the accounts, public record) being allowed to use those funds to build the infrastructure which you are now claim is not being undertaken. That has the stench of socialist humbug and hypocrisy to me.

Tomorrow – My Future fund and I want a better risk and return profile than a “sheltered workshop for unionists”.
Posted by Col Rouge, Sunday, 26 November 2006 3:24:49 PM
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Those troublesome protestors, Col - getting free public transport. Wouldn't it be better if we live in a Pinochet-style neo-liberal utopia - and we could just let the death squads take care of socialists, unionists and their ilk.

As for 'crass ignorance' - I'm well aware of what DI is. And I believe the billions in revenue foregone could make a substantial difference in cutting back hospital waiting lists (which the Libs like to complain about - but they cut expenditure when they get in government), in providing affordable and quality education for all, and in providing for the aged and for their carers. With the top 20% owning 90% of all shares, it's clear whose interests you care about, and whose you do not.

And you're right - the US does not have dividend imputation. Most of the world doesn't. When you add state company taxes to the equation, the US also has significantly higher corporate tax rates. Certainly we could do to introduce an infrastructure levy, or raise Company Tax by as much a 5%. Meanwhile, in Australia, the government boasts about having next to no debt - but no-one mentions the backlog of unconstructed infrastructure that is creating a drag on the entire economy.

As for the third world not being forced into anything: these countries are driven to accept 'structural adjustment' packages in return for credit, including privatisation. And it has nothing to do with credit-worthiness, and everything to do with the ideological agenda of the main contributor to the IMF and World Bank: the United States.

The neo-liberal Right loves to evoke the language of 'envy' when condemning socialist or social-democratic policy - but the market is not 'essentially' fair or just. Regulation and redistribution are necessary to create compassionate and just outcomes. The alternative is a US style health system, or a US style labour market. This may seem like utopia for you (low income tax for the wealthy, low income earners being exploited and denigrated as 'trailer trash') but for most of us the prospect is appalling.
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Sunday, 26 November 2006 5:03:33 PM
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Col_Rouge said that “If I borrow money from any bank, that bank has a right to put conditions on the loan, like checking the quality of the security, checking my “credit worthiness”, arranging a repayment schedule etc. It is no different for nations.” However the founder of the Grameen Bank, Muhammad Yunus, said that in the third world, loans to farmer often came with unfair conditions like the crop can only sold to the lender at the price he decides to pay.

Re: IMF and World Bank have come under a lot of criticism for being instruments of American economic imperialism insisting that development loans be used to pay large fees to expatriate experts and use capital intensive equipment rather than local manpower and technology to complete projects.

Col_Rouge said “I thought most shares were owned by superfunds, mutual funds, unit trusts and other institutional investors, who act in the best interests of their beneficial members (us).” hee hee hee! Col_Rouge obviously runs his own superannuation fund because he wouldn't be so sanguine if his super was being managed by the largest superfunds in Australia who are seriously less than competent and protected by government regulation they are “sheltered workshops for the incompetent”. But the CFMEU is just copying an idea from Singapore which used superannuation monies to invest in housing

Transport companies thrive or fail on their commercial merits, by the same argument the user should pay each time he travels on Eastlink.

In 1992 Victoria had a unified water system, now we have “water companies” so why do you think its OK to sell off the assets the government built at fire sale prices. The UK has private water companies and this year has had water restrictions since March!

A little search of Wikipedia indicates that the state treasurer has better credentials than you to hold the state's purse strings.

See you at the MCG, 9am Thursday!
Posted by billie, Sunday, 26 November 2006 5:11:36 PM
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Dear Tristan,
of course I am right USA does not have DI, I have some experience of US tax, having lived there and paid it for 3 years, we do not all get our references from discarded Keynsian textbooks.

However, the basket of taxes levied in USA is so totally different, with each state applying different rates of Sales tax and some applying local income tax, that the comparisons you are alluding to are fatuous.

Well Tristan, you have one thing right, I do have an idealogical agenda.

I would suggest you get one too. At the moment you are content to publicly humiliate yourself offering up the discarded and discredited drivel of socialism – which is far from being an ideology, more like a mediocrity.

“the market is not 'essentially' fair or just”

Oh the world is not a fair or just place at all. I have never suggested it is. If your policies depend on everything being “fair and just” you are screwed.

My philosophy of life is to play the hand you are dealt and do your best, that way everyone will ultimately benefit.

Your philosophy requires micromanagement to level the ground for everyone by stopping those that achieve from benefiting from the fruit of their innovation, thrift and efforts by stealing from them with regressive taxation.
You will spend all your resources flattening dirt for people who just do not care.
A waste of time effort and opportunity, as we can gleam from the stench of socialist stagnation which pervades your posts (50 year old references to Keynes).

Regarding the future fund.

Beazley would love to fritter that nestegg away, spend the lot on grandiose icons to the union movement, chisel some off for the labor party like they did on the lease for Centenary House.

Future fund is designed to cover the superannuation packages of retiring civil servants. It should be managed and invested independently of parliament and not used as a swill trough for socialist to pork barrel their electorates (nice mixed metaphor – swill and pork barrel, Keating was heavily into pigs too).
Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 27 November 2006 4:55:48 PM
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Billie “pay each time he travels on Eastlink.” (aka Scoresby tollway) Well if Bracks had not got away with lying to the public about that it would be a freeway. It was intended as a freeway and 2 days after being reelected in 2003 Bracks & Co declared it a toll way and lost the $400 million federal funding.

Blame Bracks & Co for that Billie, not me.

The infrastructural requirements of the UK water have no comparison to Australia, subterranean aquifers contain most of the water (eg in the south the chalk of the South Downs). A more even pattern of rain fall means the level of dam reserves do not have to accommodate extreme seasonal falls.

As for UK water restrictions, Cornwall has had seasonal water restrictions going back 30 years. I dunno where you do your research for your posts but I suggest you find a new source, you are spouting incidental and irrelevant drivel.

Re “treasurer has better credentials than you”

Brumby’s qualifications, per your source state “he graduated in commerce in 1974,”…” Diploma of Education in 1975”

Oh billie, don’t turn this into a “size of di*k competition”.

The only credential that John Brumby has which qualify him for the role of state treasurer, is being elected to parliament, an endeavour which I have never pursued.

As far as “credentials” , my professional accreditations outrank his commerce degree and teaching diploma hands down. We might consider giving him some credits against exams for the commerce degree but that would amount to no more than 1/3 the papers he would need to sit to qualify for membership.

The most offensive part of the parade of the trolls (the trade hall trollops rally this week) is those usurpers of public services, who are to receive free travel as a bribe to attend and doubtless threats by union thugs behind closed doors, is they suggest bringing children. I recall when the wharfies dragged their wives and children onto the picket line, to hide behind skirts and prams. A despicable act but what we now expect from trailer trash.
Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 27 November 2006 4:58:05 PM
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Col_Rouge At one stage I worked for a supplier to UK water boards and the people I dealt with in the UK water boards envied the unified water system in Victoria.

Its unfair to expect railways to be stand alone user pays when roads are built with funds from consolidated revenue.

Why do you object to low paid workers getting free public transport to the rally at the MCG on Thursday when you probably claim travel expenses on your tax return. This egrious item has been called "sanctioned tax fraud" by Michael Carmody, retiring Taxation Commissioner in March 2006. Contract teachers and nurses who are hired by the day are unable to claim travel allowances and they often can't work without a vehicle to get them from home to work when they have less than 1 hours notice of the work. And I grit my teeth when a Liberal member of Parliament complains about the car provided by the grateful tax payers of Victoria for their use.

Being a state treasurer might require more networking, vision and macro economics than is needed for chartered accountancy exams. With the complaints you still make about effort you put into passing your exams are you sure you were actually up to the task. Even as you quaff your french wine you are still a red neck.
Posted by billie, Monday, 27 November 2006 10:07:42 PM
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