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The Forum > Article Comments > Reflections on a multicultural nation > Comments

Reflections on a multicultural nation : Comments

By Andrew Jakubowicz, published 15/11/2006

The energy directed against multiculturalism has been truly evil, for it has been advancing an agenda of superiority, while disregarding the consequences.

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Yes Sneeky.. still here...grinding away at young Braindrain :)
and building up young Obviously....

BRAINY...
I'm encouraged by your deeper scrutiny of scripture. But you now say you are not Christian ? hmmm... You make a strong argument AS one, with your treatment of Romans 12 in regard to Romans 13, and the Sermon on the Mount.

I think I need to make a few points here.

1/ Peters method (sword) compared to Jesus (word alone, love enemies)

Ok.. this is probably the most difficult area of scripture to fully undersand and reconcile. So, my thinking is still a bit on the fly, under construction.
Matthew 5 does have an element of idealism in it. Highlighting Gods virtually unreachable standard of holiness, and the seriousness of sin. Example "If you hand sins against you, CUT it off" which allows you 2 sins for a lifetime if taken literally. But if you change your sin to that of the eye, you have 2 more chances and if the feet, another 2 but thats it..6 opportunities to sin. Clearly, in the Sermon, our Lord is teaching by 'impact/headline' and also in a culturally acceptable manner. "How many fish did you get mate"?...reply "Woooo TRUCKloads" (in reality he got bag limit)

But in regard to 'enemies' and those who persecute you.. bless and do not curse them. EXACTLY... and where I fail in this, I deserve a kindly rebuke. If you have watched this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0yoR8R4T1w&mode=related&search=

and seen the man yelling about killing the Danes and taking their wives and children as war booty for the Muslims, you might just have an inkling into how great our Lord actually was.. he did walk the walk.

While I know the experience of being close to the Lord, and having love for enemies, we should also consider the 'State' aspect
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 22 December 2006 7:59:56 AM
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continued....

2/ This brings us to Romans 13.

The key point of this is that all authority is from God. The ROLE of State Authority is to deter the evildoer....with the sword if neccessary. The evildoers here are the men calling for beheading and killing and bombing.

If I was employed by the State in a policing capacity or covert capacity, then I would have a biblical responsiblity to find such people, arrest them and incarcerate them according to law.
There may be other operations which such a position requires, (the covert) for example technical work in regard to anti-terrorism surveillance which my company has done.

But what about an ordinary citizen ? The key here is that it is legitimate to 'hate' an idea, while being concerned for the adherants of that idea. Then there is the struggle between 'whacking' the rock and 'speaking to' it...(read this story to 'get' that :) Numbers 20:1-12
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=4&chapter=20&version=31
Pay special attention to verse 10 and 11.... you will find me in my less spiritual moments 'there' :)

“Thou shall not kill” you need to re-think this one mate. If not taken to mean ‘murder’ then even animals could not be killed, and God instituted the sacrificial system. Google the debate.

CHURCH ATTENDANCE Today the news said only about 20% of Aussies will be heading to Church during the Christmas period. This is indeed sad for the nation, spiritual decline and waywardness. The opposite is happening in Africa and Borneo and Singapore and umpteen other places. Singapore beach on a public holiday, (East Coast Parkway) you can turn 360degrees and will see some Christian group in view, singing...praying..fellowshipping.

We need to fill the valleys and remove the hills in our lives, and make the way clear for the Messiah to fill and renew us. Individually and nationally. John and Jesus had the same message. “Repent....for the kingdom is at hand” - true then, and true now. Same human condition, same Messianic solution. Grace, and forgiveness in Christ.
Cheers and a happy Christ filled holiday time.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 22 December 2006 1:06:55 PM
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BOAZ_D

Like you found, your last post has given me heart. You seem to have more inteligence than many and like me remain open to new interpretation and can appreciate that sometimes we do err (as we are both human).

When i said i was not christian it was meant in the sense that i do not follow christian church dogma or respect church authority (a la Pope eg) or consider that i belong to 'little c' christians (those who declare Christ or take on the name but do not follow truly the Way, eg Bush.) I read the Bible (also 'heretical' texts concerning Jesus) and remain open to other's interpretation of scripture who have studied more intensely and completely than i, but test all i hear to see what truth it contains and how it fits with other foundation. Also that, as my feelings for Obviously show, i have a long way to go before i am able to follow the way as well as JC invites us all to, myself.

As for Matthew 5, remember that Christ had knowledge of His Father to which (he knew) many who listened to him were not yet able to fully appreciate as they followed many 'faiths'. Hence his parable mode of speech - to get across a truth in a more 'basic' level of understanding. Today we understand that our hand cannot offend us - it is the servant of the mind, it does not operate autonomously - hence the instruction is to 'cut out of our mind/mental body' that which caused our hand to make 'offense', or cut out what is in our heart (emotional body - the desire to do that which is evil eg, adultery). We need to take the time to learn how to do this correctly. When read in a corporate sense it could also be read as to remove even your most trusted 'right hand man' if his intent offends or pollutes the entire company or 'state'. (Democracy's please note).
(cont.)
Posted by BrainDrain, Friday, 22 December 2006 1:10:00 PM
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Brainy.. while u r working on your continuation, I've been reading a bit futher on the subject of 'enemies'.

Paul, in Romans 12 as you pointed out said "Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse"..... (v14)

But regarding those spreading a different Gospel he said this:

Philippians 3:2 Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh.

Galatians 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

So, this is the foundation of my criticism of Islam, and of anyone spreading this faith. I regard them as Paul did. There is a difference between enemies who persecute you based on ignorance and those who know the truth yet reject. I think, based on the above, it is quite valid to portray Muslim evangelists as 'deserving of eternal damnation'. The same would apply to Televangelists who turn the gospel into a 'get rich quick' scheme. Because not only ar they lost themselves but they are teaching and dragging others into a lost eternity as well.

While I feel it is justified to criticize false Christians and Muslims, one needs to be careful to avoid becoming pharisaical oneself.

Galatians is a good read about this subject.
Cheers and have a happy Christ-mas. I'll be away till the 29th.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 23 December 2006 12:05:04 PM
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BOAZ_D

Thanks for the greetings.

Apologies if i have 'kept you waiting'.

The darn post limit prevented me from saying what i had to say before and now i have lost the continuation (and train of thought).

I had something wise and wonderful to divulge to all on the subject of hatred breeding only more hatred (as the video will undoubtedly highlight/reinforce in some, and only a Truly Christian apporach to those who are not like 'us' can ever hope to bring peace to the world by eliminating the hatred within ourselves and letting God 'judge' us all in God's own good time. But that is simply not human nature and there will always be some yob who wants to make it personal and continue(multiply) the carnage - pity that.

By their fruits shall ye know them. Christ chose to give up his earthly life to his enemies and keep his faith (thou shalt not kill) rather than fighting on Earth and destroying his eternal life (Soul)

Will read more of Paul's letter to the Galatians but please bear in mind i am not a Galatian (or Roman or Phillipian, etc), nor are we meant to be instigating a bible class in this thread :-)

It is my personal belief that the wisest things we can do are study the words of Jesus Christ (as quoted by others unfortunately, since Christ never wrote anything down for others to read - maybe that tells us something?) and to make a lifetime study of 'knowing thyself'.

Lest we take on the 'wisdom' of the pharisee's.
Posted by BrainDrain, Friday, 29 December 2006 1:33:36 PM
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Brainy
I've been grappling with this issue in an ongoing way.
if you're worried about hogging the thread for Sunday school, you can write to me by email and I can sort you out :) jdrmot@tpg.com.au
For reference, consider this.
Jesus said "woe to you Chorazin and Bethsaida"..compare this with Galatians and Romans 12-7ish.
The Principle.. "Interpret Scripture with Scripture" is not bad.

But back on TOPIC...

I've been thinking about the Quran and its outright condemnation of Christians "Allah's curse be on them" 9:30 and "don't take Jews or Christians as friends" ... to me is outright cultural incompatability and deserving of a total rejection by DIMA of any visa application by Muslims for immigration to Australia.

If you take the reasoning as follows: (to the Muslim mind)

1/ God/Allah is at war against Christians (has cursed them)
2/ I am on God/Allah's side as I am Muslim.
3/ Therefore, I should seek to destroy the Christians and Jews.
4/ I could NEVER defend a country populated by Jews or Christians.

Now..if the reality was different from this, I might be persuaded to relent a bit on my rather hard line against Muslim immigration.
But it is not.
During Christmas I spent time with my cousin, who was called up for jury duty in Shepharton for a case involving a Muslim migrant, who murdered 1 bloke and nearly did in 2 more at the meat works for them giving him crap about being Muslim. That is a very common reality.
It also fits the Islamic teaching about those who attack Islam.
Well.. I am not prepared to have my freedom of expression so curtailed, and I would not even WANT to sxpress anti Islamic sentiments were it not FOR such condemnation of me and mine on the basis of our faith by the Quran.
Criticizing such false teaching is quite Biblical :)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 29 December 2006 10:36:44 PM
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