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The Forum > Article Comments > The public transport myth > Comments

The public transport myth : Comments

By Alan Moran, published 24/10/2006

Compared to public transport, people find cars to be more convenient and lower cost.

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Typical Alan Moran.

Ignore the pollution issue. Ignore the public welfare issue. Alan Moran is so enthusiastic about the private enterprise option that he thinks it will answer all problems.

Funny thing, as far as I know our champion of capitalism has never run his own business. Well I do and I have also worked in both private and public enterprises both here and in three other countries. I am an engineer and I think I would have a lot more practical experience than Alan.

He is so keen on the US example and ignores the fact that the US is the worlds greatest pollutor. Of course the public have chosen the option they want and they don't want the climate to change either. News for them - you can't have both. Sooner or later reality will bite, and no amount of academic economics will change that. Mother earth doesn't give a stuff about the Institute of Public Affairs.

Perhaps we will have to change our lifestyle Alan. What we want may be impossible.
Posted by logic, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 8:10:34 PM
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PK “It is simple . . . impose a congestion tax on car commuters to busy areas, and a carbon tax . . . put the money into improving and extending public transport,”

PK what you are suggesting is to ignore the lamentable and pathetic financial deficiencies of public transport to prop up the emotional notion that we must have it.

I would suggest

Compare the cost of providing roads for cars and public transport both without subsidy and both without the crippling tax burdens which motorists already pay so they are compared on the basis of “A level playing field”.

If cars are “cheaper” then the population who vote these profligate spending government galahs into office should insist that public transport be abolished, the tracks torn up and the freed up space used to provide additional ring roads and car parks.

Why do some people insist, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that we actually “need“ public transport?

If public transport was desirable and “economically viable” then it would fund itself. If it is not, then it deserves to be assigned to the history books.

Take a look at BART (not the fellow in the Simpsons but Bay Area Rapid Transit - just google “BART case study”) a classic in public transport mismanagement and incompetence on a grand scale.

Oh Sir Vivor (yeah!) the snippets – “putting money into depreciating assets instead of mortgage repayments” etc etc.

People will spend their residual income on what they like, not on what some opinionated pratt thinks they should spend it on.

The word is CHOICE. Most people have clearly shown a choice for cars in preference to inefficient, incompetent, inconvenient, dangerous and unhygienic public transport networks which consume ever increasing amounts of public funding to keep a bunch of retards in the equivalent to a public run sheltered workshop.
Posted by Col Rouge, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 9:35:08 PM
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Alan, what tripe! And it seems you propagate this nonesense regularly! Not surprising though, as our media seems to enjoy the contention offered by ignorant commentators.

You apparently seem at ease using very selective data to demonstrate your case. This is deceptive and sneaky. There are so many reasons why your arguments are fallacious, many of which have been pointed out in previous comments. If you had actually lived in North America, you would know that many of your beloved car dependent cities have a 'dead or dying heart'. That is, business and residents have evacuated to the suburbs and locate near or in super malls. The economic loss in terms of productive rural land being paved, as well as the city core becoming a wasteland never gets a mention. The fact that pollution attributable to the transport sector kills twice as many people in Australia than car accidents - these words do not bother your pen. I could go on, but will simply refer you to peer reviewed articles on the subject. Jane Jacobs' "The Death and Life of American Cities" might be worth reading also.

For the record, yes I am an urban planner with expertise in urban transport systems and integration with land uses. And I have lived in North America. I am not sponsored by any political, public or private entity. Now, will you declare your interests...?
Posted by Justin W, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 9:56:41 PM
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I recommend everyone who poo poos efficient public transport take a trip to Singapore and experience the MRT.

Of course, such an approach cannot be simply transplanted here, without some long forward planning.

But taken together, forward planning and good public transport can be a wonderful thing.

"I have a dream" :) to steal some famous words, of a series of population/business centres say between Melbourne and Albury, linked by a fast train.. and a circular MRT style train/tram deal around these centres. Perhaps 2 concentric loops... at least so as to make accessing places of employment easy by foot from the nearest Station.
This works very well in the CBD of Singapore, and Malaysia is not far behind. In fact the 'Cyber Jaya' concept of Malaysia with the growth corridor between the International Airport and the capital is quite visionary, (as long as you can stand an obligatory dose of Pavarotti occasionaly interrupting the wide screen TV doco you were enjoying)

Good public transport based on dispersed but well connected Business/employment centres is tremendous, not withstanding Sages initial rant :)

The car is also great for that added element of independance, but the concept of masses of cars moving like lemmings at .5k/h on the freeway during peak hour is not my kind of fun either.
Its the old story, new freeway, more cars.. same congestion.
I 'would' think anyone who endures the Monash going to and from work needs therapy, but having reviewed the experience myself, I think such commuters are past therapy :) it is a nightmare beyond belief that only the irredeemably insane would put themselves through.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 25 October 2006 5:37:10 AM
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Aaah good old, right wing, free market Col Rouge. The word is CHOICE, you say, Col.

My choice is not to be poisoned by the pollution from the cars of those who refuse to use public transport because of the inconvenience, which is often relatively minor. My choice is not to see a further increae in global warming due to the same factor, nor depletion of oil reserves or a increase in unfavourable terms of trade due to unnecessarily high oil and car imports. My choice is not to see futher despoilation of the urban landscape through the building of ugly freeways and their filling with ugly traffic congestion, nor the construction of more new, far-flung, car-dependent housing estates.

Overuse of the private motor vehicle and is not a good thing for the individual, the economy or the the environment. Anyone who thinks that private vehicle kilometres travelled can expand infinitely and without serious consequences is living in a fool's paradise.
Posted by PK, Wednesday, 25 October 2006 9:37:12 AM
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Hamlet, not every one can afford the eastern suburbs, nor can all work in the CBD.
Many years ago, both my wife, & I worked in the Sydney CBD, & caught the train from Carringbah. It was a pleasant way to get to work, spoiled only by the fact that I required a car for work, sometimes.
Then my company moved to Padstow, as the city became less viable for business. Fortunately, we did not move to reduce my travel, now by car, as the only option, as my wife's employer, then moved to Zetland.
So, from my point of view, we then had a public transport system that was useless, & would never be able to serve our requirements.
This may not be the falt of the system, but it is the case for most of the public.
Our cities, & our places of employment, have grown with the car, & only the car can now service the transport requirements, a most unfortunate fact.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 25 October 2006 10:00:45 AM
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