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The Forum > Article Comments > Al Gore’s movie meets its match in Stockholm > Comments

Al Gore’s movie meets its match in Stockholm : Comments

By Bob Carter, published 13/10/2006

KTH meeting shows that dangerous global warming remains unproved.

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Richard,

You misrepresented the NAS report. It does not say what you wish it says. It does not agree with your conclusion that the "hockey stick" is "unverified" or "unverifiable". It says Mann's conclusions are 'plausible'. It says that more recent evidence supports his conclusions.

No amount of amateur (and ironically mis-applied) pop-psych about projection is going to change that basic fact.
Posted by skellett, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 12:01:37 PM
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Dear readers,

I would just like to direct this comment to those interested folk who may have inadvertently stumbled upon this thread in the hope they may learn something about global warming.

You should be aware that much of the discussion here (as characterised by KAEP, Cathy and Richard) is extremely unrepresentative of scientific and mainstream opinion on global warming - and borders on delusional ideology.

More informed opinion can be found here: http://www.realclimate.org/

Further evidence and images of man's disastrous effect on the planet may be found here: http://na.unep.net/OnePlanetManyPeople/index.php

Thank you.
Posted by BT, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 12:22:10 PM
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BT,

We know you have no scientific qualifications by your lack of specificity. It is obvious you have not understood a damn thing that others have posted here and it is thus obvious that you haven't even read and understood the two outdated climate propaganda dregs foisted on us.

Whatever you're selling BT, we don't want it!

ITM, here's how to calculate that the Tropical Atlantic(TWA) lost 50% heat between May-11 and July-31 this yearcompared to 2005:

Sea Surface heat content, M*S*dT, that heat available to hurricane formation, is dependent on the temperature difference, dT between the sea surface and a nominal depth of say 20 metres.

First subtract the 20metre data from the sea surface temperature for both 2005 and 2006 SST maps.
Then subtract the 2005 SST maps from their corresponding 2006 map (dT)and integrate over all pixels in the region defined as the TWA, it is proportional to the difference in sea surface heat content between the same times 2005/2006.

The computed value approaches the 50% mark 2005/2006 at around July 31, within the error limits of the relevant parameters.

Conversely, at May 11, the Gulf of Mexico had substantially more SS heat this year than 2005. At that time I, and most meteorologists rightly predicted a worse hurricane season this year than last year.

What has changed in the M*S*dT computation is that the value of S (specific heat capacity dependent on colloids and other pollutants) of surface waters has changed. This allows less heat to be trapped in surface waters and more heat to be released in continual drifts towards the Nth East Atlantic. That that occurred this year is on record with the number of sub hurricane storms reaching record levels this year.

Do I have to spell out what that means for the TWA region? Waste managers and individuals all over the TWA have cleaned up wastewater emissions in the face of a very grave hurricane threat to their way of life.

AND ITS PAID OFF FOR THEM.
Posted by KAEP, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 4:48:40 PM
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I think most logical people agree that our climate is being affected by human activity.It is all a matter of disciphering which part of our climate is cyclical and which part represents long term change due to our activities.

I can remember in the sixties when we had a run of summers that had extremely hot weeks of 40 degrees celsius plus in Sydney every day.We could be at the moment experiencing such a hot cycle.

If fossil fuels are the main culprit then we are in a catch 22 delimma.Billions of people will starve if we dramatically reduce fossil fuel usage since there are no immediate viable alternatives.Who is going to tell China or India to reduce their economic activity?

Don't forget that fossil fuels we are burning now were once vegetation that took carbon dioxide from the air.The world must have been a much hotter place then and animals survived.

The most important issue I see is that of world population growth.All countries have to take a more pro-active role since a finite Earth cannot possibly keep us all in the manner that we emulate on the big screen.

I don't want to be around for the ensuing world chaos if extreme,rapid climate change is upon us.Imagine the millions of refugees,disease,murder and mayhem.Suicide tablets would be a big seller,perhaps the big drug companies could make a last killing before the final curtain.

But in the meanwhile,"Always look on the bright side of life.When your chewing on life's gristle,just give a whistle,life's a lark and death's a joke that's true...."
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 25 October 2006 7:06:00 PM
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"Always look on the bright side of life.When your chewing on life's gristle,just give a whistle,life's a lark and death's a joke that's true...." ??

How insensitive to the plight of drought stricken farmers.

I'd like to see Arjay make that case in the pub out at Parkes, Walgett or Wagga.

In the Meantime, look at the current SHA map of coastal NSW:

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/phod/trinanes/tmp/sha1161748869.gif

Observe the large red and blue splodges off the NSW coast, mostly coming visibly from the Macleay river, Sydney, Newacastle, Bega and Eden.

That pollution is a result of Howard's push to subjugate the NSW population with unnecessary immigration. It is this immigration policy that accounts for a significant proportion of the wastewaters entering the Tasman Sea off NSW. That coastal pollution is HIGH ENTROPY in nature and thus by the Second Law of Thermodynamics attracts LOW entropy heat and moisture out of the NSW heartland where it should be involved in convective processes that deliver seasonal rainfalls to farmers in inland NSW.

And while Howard is doling out relief cash to farmers and big noting himself, he no doubt secretly counts the days to when all the small farmers die out and he can privatise agriculture in NSW.

So while you look on the bright side Arjay, everyone else is looking at Howard to see which move he will make next to stuff up the quality of life of this nation in the name of economic progress and wealth on a string when he cynically knows that the only economic progress is in mining.

When I see those SHA extremes flatten out off the NSW coast, only then will I look on any bright side because I'll know that the rains are coming, the drought is about to break and bushfires will be hard pressed to find somewhere to burn.

And speaking of drear, who wants to bet that Scully's replacement will be yet another Italian. So much for Democracy in NSW!
Posted by KAEP, Thursday, 26 October 2006 3:44:13 AM
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Arjay – I am with you. When we stop laughing at life, the world will be a worse place.

Maybe that is what is wrong with the whole climate warming issue, it is being managed by people who do not laugh or seem to have emotions. The whole thing is one of those huge socialist sackcloth and ashes parades of people afraid to smile or laugh, fearsome of what might happen next and trying to live life safely and securely in a world which never changes. Oh bring on the self flagellation.

They worry about global warming, trying to ensure it does not happen, when they do not really know if it is a short or long term issue or what really to do about it anyway, other than make a penance to the weather god by walking to work or only eating beans.

I agree too, world population is out of control. The developed world is “population stable”, the underdeveloped world is not. That is fact. No might be’s or may be’s.

Stop the population explosion and the rest of the problems disappear.

Now all we need is to get those patronizing do-gooders behind it and we might, just might, stand a chance.

As for the suicide tablets – maybe invest there – I always reckoned an “end of the earth insurance” policy was a good one to try too. For me though, no pills, if things get really desperate, Thelma and Louise showed the way, although I do like the Caddie, for me, substitute a Bentley (the next car I intend to buy).

Oh KAEP – I enjoy your posts, except the last one, loosen up dude. The farmers of every state did not give a toss as they bought the foreign imported tractors and harvesters and the Sunshine factory went down the tubes. Farmers should start to realize, they are not a sacred cow which we need to indulge and maintain for posterity, they are part of the changing world and that means sometimes what they used to do is not going to work
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 26 October 2006 5:50:54 AM
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