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The Forum > Article Comments > American decline and the Australian predicament > Comments

American decline and the Australian predicament : Comments

By Reg Little, published 9/10/2006

Ignored in the rhetoric about the 'clash of civilisations' is the rise of East Asian cultures

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BOAZ... mate... I usually enjoy your comments, a little kooky to my way of thinking but still containing a few shreds of thought that make them worth reading. Your last comment is a classic example of an actually insightful contribution , but stuffing it up by your mania about "Christian values".

The decline of the 'Anglo-American' West has little to do with changes in our values. You are right - the Asia countries have moved forward because they did your points A and B. By copying our technology they have reduced what the West's prime advantage - its technological advantage over other cultures.

Without our technological advantage, we now compete on a more equal footing against societies that have certain cultural advantages - not just the Confucian work ethic, but also a tradition of government that (despite its lack of respect of human rights) has proven to be remarkably effective in taking advantage of opportunities that arise.

I believe that the West's hope lies in learning the positive cultural lessons of Asia (and avoiding their many negatives) by doing what we have done throughout history - assimilating these lessons into our own continually evolving culture. In short, our saving grace will be our adaptability due to our tradition of democracy.

Being scared and turning inwards, only looking at and considering our own rich political and cultural history (including Christian viewpoints such as yours) engaging in what the author describes as an "intellectual apartheid", will only further the decline of the West.
Posted by Ben G, Monday, 9 October 2006 11:07:08 PM
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Huntington's "Class of Civilizations" leans heavily on Carroll Quigley (1961), wherein in is proposed that civilizations follow patterns (I think Toynbee might have written on thos too). Anyway, Western civilization played with decline three times but pulled-up. Historically, the centre state of the Western civilization has been Britian in the latest version, perhaps starting with the defeat of the Spanish Amarda in 1588 and progressively ending the emergence of the national state and England at the locus of the Gold stardand (c. 1933) and Brenton Wood (1944) the US as a centre state, exists in what civilizationists refer to as an Interegum (usually 100 to 200 years), wherein the West could regain traction or an other civilization takes over.

China as the centre state of Confucian civilization is problematic, because those driving change are possibily the Shang (entrepreneurs, artisans, merchants), not the Confucians. There is possibility for much tension here. Will the merchant classes become Marfia's like in Russia? Could be. If so, how will the Communist Party act? Yet to be played out.

One thing more easy forecast is that trade with China create problems with Western trade balances. When China traded with the Classical Civilization, Rome, this happened. the Opium Wars were a result trade inbalance with England, and this problem has occur in dynastic China too. Maybe, a new trade systems (1933, 1944, 1973) or a war would save the West
Posted by Oliver, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:57:17 AM
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Nice article, and a good post there by Ben.

The world I envision in 30 years time has the US receding quickly in economic power, being eclipsed by China and India, though their cultural supremacy will take much longer to decay.
Children throughout the world - even in cultures very different to the US - have been affected by Americo/Western values. This won't just go away any time soon.
This is a more powerful foothold than some might think, though the change in economic status will trigger a recession and the value of the greenback will plummet.
Once this occurs, the multinationals that have made the US their roosting place will be relocating their headquarters to new locations. They certainly won't go down with the ship, even though it isn't technically sinking, rather, taking on a little water and bobbing unpleasantly.

This of course, is a largely economic forecast, which doesn't take into account political manouevring, though I rather suspect that there won't be much the US can do. Especially if it maintains this shotgun approach to economic and political responsibility.

Australia should be doing okay - our resources will last a while longer, and we'll be an invaluable trading partner for the new emerging economies. There will be lobbying from many quarters over the next decade to up the migration of skilled and low skilled workers, especially from asia. As their economies rise in stature, it will be the asian powers that have the skills adn workers we need to maintain our ability to export resources in ever increasing amounts. Hopefully we'll be able to diversify beyond this a little more, but hey. I guess we'll see.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 3:27:53 PM
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Our biggest problem will be keeping keeping crime and corruption under control as we lower wages to compete with Asia and thus our greatest challenge will be maintaining our democracy.

I have visions of all our banking and IT workers standing outside of the dole office with placards saying,"We've been Globalised".

The power of big corporations I think is out of control.Too much money via the share market is being concentrated in fewer hands and our Govts just tax the living day lights out of the middle and working classes since they are easy targets.

We have the lunatic socialists on one hand who want total control,and large corporates who want total power.Surely we can find a balance of power that benefits all of us.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 6:04:27 PM
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Arjay,
Come with the democratic socialists mate, we won't let you down
Regards, Shaun

The only other alternative is to vote for the other conservative party the ALP.
Posted by SHONGA, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 9:19:41 PM
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Shaun ,that would be a difficult pill for me to swallow.I believe in small Govt and the right of the individual to find their own destiny.This Globalised World is moving us all closer to the totalitarian state.You just look at NSW at the moment and the manner in which the laws and regulations of our Councils and State Govt bodies are implemented are akin to the Starlinist regiemes of the old Soviet USSR.

Our so called Capitalist system his becoming like the Soviet Totalitarian State that the Bush administration professes to abhorr.
At every turn in NSW we have more taxes and regulation aimed at destroying the autonomy of the individual.This is a result of unaccountable,bloated big Govt.I hate the word Socialism because it conjures up images of huge bureaucracies screwing the individual just like the big corporates,only for a result of far less wealth for all.

In other words,I'd rather be screwed buy a Capitalist rather than a non productive Communist,since the wealth from a Capitalist has some trickle down effect.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:35:41 PM
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