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The Forum > Article Comments > Flames of protest should be seen from more than one viewpoint > Comments

Flames of protest should be seen from more than one viewpoint : Comments

By Helen Irving, published 4/9/2006

To make flag-burning against the law would be to dilute the freedoms it represents.

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Boaz David...

"FLAG BURNING SHOULD BE A CRIME.
I would suggest life imprisonment as a minimum."

and....

"The day when some bearded freak can stand in my city and yell 'KILL KILL, you will PAYYYY' and hold my country up to total contempt in the name of a foreign sleazy religion is the day when I seriously consider my position as a Christian in terms of 'just war' to defend the nation."

Boaz David...thank 'insert deity here' you dont belong to one of those intolerant extremist religions huh?
Posted by DOOM, Wednesday, 6 September 2006 11:24:20 AM
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Dear DOOM
yes..I'm VERY thankful I don't belong to one of 'those' fundamentalist intolerant groups :) Thanx for highlighting that.

My post was more political than religious, but you would know by now my background and adherence to Christian views. Fortunately, our Christian views do not involve hateful violence, or death threats of the kind I described, which of course came from the Muslims in the UK. (Note:The police use 'righteous' violence)

I am working though, on a Christian view of war.. and defense, not an easy subject. My current position in that thinking is this. "Stop your enemy but don't STOMP him"= "Love your enemy". The only thing at this point holding me back from stopping AND stomping, is my relationship with Christ.
I believe that military defense of our country is legitimate and acceptable to God. (Romans 13) Triumphal ill treatment of defeated enemies for the sake of it is not. Aggressive interrogation when the safety of the nation is at stake is not a problem for me, but I'd make the most use of any proven chemical and psychological tools (which are available) rather than inflicting pain.

Christians have a legitimate right to proclaim the Gospel of Grace, and to speak prophetically against a government, but our reference point is the righteousness of God, NOT the barrel of an AK47 or a bomb.

We will speak against injustice, and remind powers to be of the consequences which can include ultimate destruction of the nation, but not at 'our' hands.

This was Israel's experience. The prophets warned "Don't turn away from God".... the kings put on their earmuffs, continued pandering to the primal lusts of people, with cult prositutes, phallic statues, fertility symbols, High places ... and destruction came. The Phillistines, Assyrians, then the Babylonians... and finally the Romans.

We call on the nation to repent... and our leaders to walk in the ways of God, but we don't send them letter bombs if they refuse. We don't need to. Read chapter1&2 of this: (all came true for the nations AND Israel)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=37&chapter=1&version=31
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 6 September 2006 5:03:42 PM
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BD

Are you saying that if you weren't a christian you would be violent?
Posted by Scout, Thursday, 7 September 2006 11:49:21 AM
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Here's a bit of irony for you - I respect the flag, solely because this country gives me the freedom to speak out about whatever I wish, and part of that expression represents actions like burning the flag.

The only reason I would have to burn the flag, would be if this country clamped down on those rights, and I was told I wasn't allowed to burn it.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Thursday, 7 September 2006 5:13:41 PM
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Scout...by nature I'm pretty tame, but I do have some testosterone running in my system.

The only fights I've ever had, (and I can count them on the fingers of one hand) were either competitive (boxing) or defending myself from getting my head shoved down a filthy toilet bowl, and the usual childhood squabbles at primary school.

As I've often pointed out, the peace we enjoy is backed up by the potential for and willingness to apply 'violence' against those who would destroy that peace. Thats why our police have firearms.

If I had to take the life of a man screaming 'death to those who insult the prophet' with a large knife in his hand- in the course of defending my country, or my family, I'd still grieve over him, because his hate was built on a lie.

I'm probably more ready now than I've ever been in my life to defend this country and our freedom (including your freedom to pick on me :)
and if your wondering whether I struggle with our Lords words concerning enemies, YES.. I do.. terribly... and I'm trying to come to grips with where we fit in between the Romans 13 teaching and the Sermon on the Mount.

"In so far as it depends on you... live at peace with all men" says Paul.

One thing I do know Scout.. its very difficult to think about being involved in conflict after a season of prayer with the Lord.

THE FLAG. (to others) Turnright etc..
The flag is much too symbolic of the country, freedom to burn it is too much freedom and would contribute to the degeneration of respect for all authority. As I've said.. lampoon and criticize the government, the PM and people, but not the flag.
This is democracy, so if my view prevails.. I hope you would abide :)
As I am obliged to regarding yours
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 8 September 2006 6:21:44 AM
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I agree with you with regard to self defence - have been in a stoush or two myself, when I had no other choice.

The reason I ask is that in many of your posts you talk about fighting and not in that christian soldiers sort of way - you seem to want to provoke and I don't see where this fits in with your christianity.

BTW - Questioning someone who, now lets be honest, is very superstitious is not 'picking on' you. You question me; I question you. Quid pro quo.

Flag burning - I don't approve per se, but then I have a bit more of a problem with flag wearing, as demonstrated at Cronulla. I have problems with thugs - regardless of their religion or ethnic background. Thugs wearing the Australian Flag are alienating a lot of Aussies who aren't thugs and are not into beer swilling, dominating public areas and, by their presence preventing law-abiding people from enjoying the beach. Contrast that type of flag-wearing with the pride we all felt when Kathy Freeman ran around the track after her victories - now thats a positive kind of flag-wearing we can all take pride in - both the Aboriginal and Whitebread flag.

Conclusion: flags, sorry I mean, flames of protest clearly have more than a single perspective - just like religion really. Aaaah variety. Love it.
Posted by Scout, Friday, 8 September 2006 11:44:57 AM
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