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A tussle between idealism and pragmatism : Comments
By Mirko Bagaric, published 14/6/2006The commentators won't bluff us again - why they got it so wrong with the counter-terrorism laws.
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Posted by Leigh, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 12:55:29 PM
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Idealists... really?
Who but a twisted idealist would join us to the War For Profit Gang? What twisted idealist would destroy a nation and it's people for control of their resources? Or has pragmatism and idealism joined freedom and democracy in the sewer of this polluted language? Let's get down and dirty and pragmatic. Terror laws are not for the comfort of yer average citizen. They are not for the protection of your grandchildren or mine. They are exclusively created for the comfort of the armchair warriors who must now spend their lives in gated estates or behind concrete barricades. To them alone belongs the nightmare of what they have wrought. From their guilt alone do we receive the bounty of terror and sedition laws. This is the excrement of THEIR dreams. As reality rots the string-bag of lies that holds this shabby mess together, they will be forced to retreat evermore behind hastily conceived "laws". They are as compromised as the most furtive shirt-lifter, and not even remotely fit to run a country for the benefit of it's citizens. That goes for both "sides" of the political spectrum. Call me an idealist by all means. Detain and torture me if it makes YOU feel better. Here's where I draw the line and say, "NO MORE!" Posted by Chris Shaw, Carisbrook 3464, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 12:58:07 PM
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Chris Shaw - You're right, applying reality to any of those conspiracy theories would do away with them. But then what would the conspiracy theorists do with their time?
Narcissist - What kind of morally bankrupt position is it to compare killing millions of people, to introducing laws (or rather extending old laws) to protect people from being killed? Excellent article, a lot of sense. Posted by Dean, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 1:31:46 PM
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Love it Chris
"as compromised as the most furtive shirt-lifter" I'm still rolling around and trying to get off the floor ;-) I disagree with your views but not with your, honesty, sincerity and sense of humour. Other than the Jihadists what really worries me are the Christian Right reactionaries. They know who they are. Their fundamentalist anti Islamism inhabits and inhibits every OLO discussion remotely to do with Islam and/or terrorism. It is best if they ponder the demise of one of their own http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19446899-5001561,00.html From what I've heard (and seen in the past) our security services are fairly moderate and open-minded (especially compared to the above reactionaries). Pete http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 1:36:07 PM
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Nicely put Chris.
For your sedition, you can now expect the sound of hushed cars early in the morning, the bashing down of your doors as ASIO and Police detain you, possibly even shoot you as happened in Britian, and take you away. Unlike the 20 people arrested before these new laws went through, you will not have the right to a lawyer. At the same time that a Protective Custody Order was issued, a Order proventing your communication with ANYBODY (including Courts) was also issued. You are alone, in a dark cell after a trip in the back of a sealed van. You do not realise you have ended up in the basement of a building at Russell in Canberra. Nobody knows you have gone. You simply vanish. No messages can come to or from you. The only people you can speak to are those appointed by your captors. Your request for a lawyer is denied. You cleverly demand your captors present you to the nearest Court under a Writ of habeas corpus - this is denied. You are questioned through-out the day or night - time doesn't matter there is not clocks, no routine. You don't know how long you've been there. After what seems an eternity of endless questioning, you are told that your Protective Custody Order has been extended. This happens many times. Years seem to pass, but it might be months. Psycological torture changes your perspective, you are eventually released and are appologised to by ASIO for their mistake. But you must not talk about this to anybody. You cannot talk to the media, your friends or family. If you talk they will put you in Long Bay for 20 years. Gestapo or ASIO. Posted by Narcissist, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 1:42:40 PM
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Narcissist
Thanks, Well said. It is wrong for a government to have the power to magically make people disappear, although I can think of a few ministers who should. Posted by Steve Madden, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 2:19:08 PM
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The terror laws only recently, and very briefly, popped up again following a hissy fit from a bunch of lawyers who refused to subject themsleves to security checks which would allow their clients' cases to proceed. Who does that affect? Nobody most of us know.
Like Cronulla, Bills of Rights, aboriginal shenanigans, Muslims etc., it's high time this one was taken off the public agenda.