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The Forum > Article Comments > If you're white, you're right > Comments

If you're white, you're right : Comments

By Stephen Hagan, published 25/5/2006

Not a lot has changed over the last one hundred years: racism still persists in Australian society.

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Redneck, the reason people give up on arguing with you is not because you are winning, but because you don't obey the rules of logic. It just ends up being a waste of time. Take your argument about dogs. You arbitrarily define a huge swathe of the populace as being of the black "race", even though there are people with dark skin in all parts of the globe with very different genetic inheritances from each other, and then impute to that whole group particular characteristics on the basis of your own preconceptions.

Then when I point out that this is the same thing as condemning all black dogs without looking at breed you insist that this is a proof of your point because if Pit Bulls were just dogs and all dogs were genetically identical, then they couldn't have a reputation for being dangerous. It would only be proof of your proposition if you could substitute "black dog" or some other sort of coloured dog for "pit bull". You can't because they are different concepts.

Until you recognise and play by logical rules, you'll tend to end up playing on your own. I'm certainly withdrawing from this conversation, there are plenty of other more profitable things to do.
Posted by GrahamY, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 6:09:08 PM
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An absurd play in one act brought to you by Opinion On-Line:

FRANKGOL [Tuesday, 13 June]: First, I can agree that people have different coloured skins or different cultures or different levels of intelligence…
REDNECK [Wednesday, 14 June 2006]: If you believe that every human being on this planet is genetically identical in every conceivable way, except skin colour and physical appearance, then the onus is on you to present a reasoned argument to support your claim.

FRANKGOL [Tuesday, 13 June: Rolls his eyes and makes a declaration containing not one single question.]
REDNECK [Wednesday, 14 June]: I see you have just resorted to chucking more questions at me again… all you have done is make noble statements and ask me lots of questions, without bothering to present an argument yourself.

FRANKGOL [Tuesday, 13 June, repeats, with rising frustration]: First, I can agree that people have different coloured skins or different cultures or different levels of intelligence…
REDNECK [Wednesday, 14 June]: You have accepted the concept of “all men are equal” because you knew that it was expected of you to do so.

FRANKGOL [Tuesday, 13 June, trying to remain calm]: It is simply ridiculous and offensive to go from the proposition that you can accurately identify a person’s race (or a dog’s breeding) to the outrageous conclusion that “in general…aboriginal people are not very bright”.
REDNECK [Wednesday, 14 June, without irony] Then along comes a heretic [like me] who contradicts the prevailing orthodoxy on the grounds of reasoned logic, and you are outraged.

REDNECK [Wednesday, 14 June]: Since your cultural conditioning assures you that racists are all idiots…
FRANKGOL [Wednesdat, 14 June late at night]: You make my case so eloquently, Redneck, and I now am really convinced that not all people have the same level of intelligence.

[EXEUNT]
Posted by FrankGol, Wednesday, 14 June 2006 6:22:54 PM
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Dear Frank
to continue

When your son in law expresses ‘pride’ in being English, YES.. you should be concerned, because it is an indicator of a racial superiority inclination.

I’m not ‘proud’ of my Scottish and English ethnic heritage, I’m aware of them, but considering my ancestors on the Scottish side were ‘cleared’ from the highlands to provide expanded sheep grazing by those on the English side (loosely speaking) their is not much to be inherently proud of. Even if one could identify a host of magnificent discoveries made by ‘our’ mob, it is not cause to be ‘racially’ proud.
The only point I’m trying to make re ‘ancestry’ is the cultural one. Our ancestry is what shaped the culture of early Australia and down to this day.

On the indigenous people, please refer to my many posts in support of them in the various threads on such topics. (bear in mind I’m married to an indigenous girl from Malaysia, so I have a strong appreciation of such issues)

The thing is, our culture as Australians is ‘predominantly’ derived from the English/Irish/Scottish etc background. This is not to deny the cultural realities of the many migrants. The problem can arise though, if, for example, there is a cultural clash between minority migrants and that which was established by our early founding fathers and mothers. If such a clash occurs, (for example food laws of Muslims, contact with opposite sex-shaking hands etc) we need to ask ourselves “Are we going to accomodate/tolerate/modify in order to make this group feel comfortable, or, should they accomodate/tolerate/modify their cultural expectations to match those of the country into which they were offered a place ?

If we don’t have a cultural policy, we will end up ‘accomodating’ at very great expense every foreign culture which arrives here. Separate ‘Muslim’ toilets at a University for 1.5% of the population is ludicrous. The preferred alternative is to inform people of different culture before they come here..’This’ is how it is, can you adjust ? If not, please stay in your present country.
Is this unreasonable?
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 15 June 2006 8:20:06 AM
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i think racism is dreadful. we actually learnt about racism last term and found out many dreadful stuff. i think racism has got to stop and you should treat everyone the same. btw, read a vulture street story by graham young.
Posted by brown_eyed_girl, Thursday, 15 June 2006 5:24:53 PM
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To GrahamY(oung?) Thank you,"brown eyed girl"

It is generally accepted that the human race is divided into three sub category “races”, Negro, Mongoloid and Caucasoid. I agree that even within the black race, very wide genetic adaptations to local environmental conditions have created black people with very different physical appearances. Whether any of these black ethnicities are smarter than others is a matter of pure speculation. But one thing is certain; wherever black societies exist they are failures. Where black communities rule themselves, they are failures. Where black communities exist within successful white communities they are also failures. Concluding that black people in general, (however you define them) are not real bright, appears to me to be a reasonable assumption based upon self evident reality.

You imply that it is absolutely wrong to impute a group of characteristics to a race. But we do it all the time. If I was to say to you that Asians are smart and hardworking people, you would probably readily agree. And white people generally do openly say that Asians are smart and hard working people. But nobody is going to scream “racism” for that. But it is racism. However, say that black people are lazy and not real bright and every trendoid for miles around runs around in a state of red faced apoplexy screaming that this is despicable racism. So, “imputing” nice things about races is OK, but “imputing” nasty things about races is not OK. I put it to you that your real position, and that of your supporters, is that black people must never be criticised. Even when that criticism is based upon observable reality.

Your “logic” on the subject of white skins/ black skinned people and white furred/ black furred dogs is child’s play to refute. It is common within breeds of dogs for dogs to have different coloured fur. Even within litters of pups, wide fur colours and patterns occur. This does not occur within human races or ethnicities where skin colour is geared to ethnicity. The only “white” indigenous Somali's or Aborigines are albino’s.
Posted by redneck, Thursday, 15 June 2006 6:13:52 PM
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Redneck,you really should read over then listen to what you're saying.Or maybe you don't know think.

"It is generally accepted that the human race is divided into three sub category “races”, Negro, Mongoloid and Caucasoid".

Those are Negroid,Caucasoid and Mongolid. Then the other small terms or sub groupings to discribe physical features,skin complexion.

Those "black" people aren't genetic blacks, their caucasoids and mongolids.So when you say you 'think' Asians &Whites are smarter it doesn't make that much sense, because genetically the people you say are less smarter than people with white skin are genetically caucasoid and mongolids, minus your skin colour& features,thats why they call it sub-races.

Like I said before negroid people in senegal have higher IQ test than people in Ireland,and senegalese are physically and genetically different from both causcasoid or mongolids.

When you go out and get a deep tan,do you get less smarter? Will you committ more crimes ? lol "Redneck"
Posted by Amel, Friday, 16 June 2006 1:35:31 AM
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