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The Forum > Article Comments > The price of democracy > Comments

The price of democracy : Comments

By Norm Kelly, published 3/4/2006

The proposed electoral reforms will result in all politicians being tainted with the perception of dirty money.

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Norm’s article highlights what is an important problem with our political system. The major political parties pay too much attention to what their big campaign donors want and not what is in the best interests of the people.

The other point to note is that the Howard government has no interest or ability to step back from its own position and look at what may make democracy work better through informed debate but concentrates on changing the system to increase its own chances of winning.

Our political forefathers, who introduced preferential voting and other checks and balances must be turning in their graves seeing our political systems sliding down hill.
Posted by Steve X Greenie, Monday, 3 April 2006 10:12:25 AM
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This is what can be expected from the traditional Howard Haters. In fact much of the contributions part of the legislation has been brought upon as the result of the media always trying to paint those that donate to political parties as somehow trying to corrupt the system. In fact it is important for both major sides of the political spectrum to be well resourced as that only strengthens their ability to develop good policies to take into government should the people vote that way. In this way democracy is actually strengthened not weakened.

One needs to rememeber that it is the electors who vote, not the doners. Policies developed are there to entice electors.

I have never been convinced that doners are only interested in favours. I think that the media has had a negative impact on the making of donations. This legislation might assist more to donate a reasonable amount without being pressured as to their motives by the media. In my view most can see the value of sound policy development and the need for well resourced parties for that to happen.
Posted by Sniggid, Monday, 3 April 2006 11:27:43 AM
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What is democracy and are there any practical examples of it on Earth?
Posted by aspro, Monday, 3 April 2006 12:30:17 PM
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Aspro, when 49.9% of the people live under a Dictatorship , we call that Democracy,
Posted by mangotreeone1, Monday, 3 April 2006 6:01:04 PM
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Norm:
Thanks for a clear and well reasoned article.

Sniggid:
The bulk of donations does not go into a party’s policy formulation. It feeds expenditure on advertising and promotion in their many forms, on campaign staff and facilities, and so on. No matter how brilliant the policies, the electors generally won’t know and understand them unless the party can communicate and explain them to the population en masse. Candidates can not introduce themselves to each elector individually, and so this too must occur en masse. It takes big bucks. And of course the advertising can just as easily disguise or conceal policies, and create a misleading or dishonest image of a candidate. Electors should be allowed to know about donors who enable these processes if they are to make sound assessments before voting.
Posted by Crabby, Monday, 3 April 2006 8:05:40 PM
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Norm,
I agree with you that we should not deny prisoners the vote. Some laws have a political flavour to them such that not only do we incarcerate some who think (and act) differently to us but we also limit their opportunities to redress what they believe are just grievances.
But, that said…

Why do we have to know at election time who supports whom?

If you believe in the secret ballot, then should it not follow that we are allowed to keep private not only who we vote for but who we financially support? Not only for fear of intimidation but for reasons of keeping some things personal. Entertainers and sporting stars amongst others in the public eye probably truly don’t want to unnecessarily alienate half the population. Donations should be recorded with the AEC or some judicial office so that if in the future there is a suspicion of preferential treatment by the government, authorities (or even the press in special circumstances) can check to see if there may be any evidence of a quid pro quo arrangement.

More stringent proof of identity requirements.

Why not? Corruption happens with EVERY election everywhere, so why not finally ask for voter ID. Voting is a privilege offered to only a minority of the people who have lived on this earth. If someone is too slack to go to the trouble of arranging identification then stuff them!

Closing the roll early.

Hardly violating the spirit of democracy. The AEC have a job to do and if the young people never thought about enrolling until someone at Maccas asked them who they were voting for at the upcoming election, then I don’t think the country will miss out too much by having to wait until the following election for their vote.
Posted by Edward Carson, Monday, 10 April 2006 2:23:06 PM
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and another thing....
Taxpayer subsidizing part of every $1500.00 donation.

C’mon Norm, a bit of jiggery pokery with statistics here.
What you are effectively saying is the following situation where two individuals each deal with $1500.00 of their before tax income.

If a rich man should otherwise spend $795 on food, lodgings, entertainment whatever, then for the privilege of such self indulgence he must, by current law, also fork out another $705 to the tax man. Similarly if a poor man should otherwise spend $1,245 on food, entertainment whatever, then for the same privilege he must fork out another $255 to the tax man.

However, now if at the last minute they change their minds, even after posting in their tax, and decide to donate to a registered tax-free political party, then the tax payer will subsidise them $705 and $255 respectively, which they will then add to their original amounts. So Flintheart Glomgold pays less than two thirds of what Peter Pauper pays.
Of course the question has to be asked: Why are you talking about “taxpayer funded” subsidies? Isn’t it their own money they are getting back? When you look at it they each actually pay $1500.00, not $795 and $1245.

The fact of the matter is, Norm, that every time Flinty earns $1500, he is only allowed to keep $795 compared to Peter being able to keep $1245. The one time he gets a break and is allowed to spend the full amount of his labour on a disinterested cause (exercising only the same right as Peter) you scream blue murder as though some outrageous corruption of a principle is being perpetrated.
Posted by Edward Carson, Monday, 10 April 2006 3:07:28 PM
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Maybe we are heading for "the best democracy money can buy" scenario.
Closing the electoral rolls early and not allowing people in prison to vote has no place in a democracy.

Maybe we should aim for a system that would only allow people on the electoral rolls to donate, to only donate to their electoral candidate, and to cap the amount of the donation at a level that most voters can afford ($10).

Obtaining votes under false pretences should attract the same sort of penalty as obtaining money under false pretences.
Posted by Peace, Tuesday, 11 April 2006 2:19:00 PM
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