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The Forum > Article Comments > Three men and their war > Comments

Three men and their war : Comments

By Gary Brown, published 30/3/2006

Many more will die violently before anything approaching peace returns to Iraq.

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I street protested against the war in Iraq, wrote to the PM said history would prove him to be a poor leader, and that I wouldn’t be duped by him playing on people’s fears. Mailed that terrorist fridge magnet package back to him too. I wasn’t going to be played for a fool.

The Iraq war stunk to high Heaven, no way did I think it was justified. Afganistan sure, but Iraq ? WMD's c'mon! I thought my government was treating me with contempt - hiding the real reasons for their participation in the war with the WMD smokescreen. I was very angry.

This was before I learned anything at all about Islam.

This was before I bothered to brush up on the religious drivers behind Islamic jihad.

If the US hadn't taken the fight to the jihadis, it would be taken to us I'm sure about this now. The more I learn the more I am grateful for the US once again! This time at the start of the 21st century. Trust me I didn't want to have to admit that.

My anti americanism was just an adolescent whine.

The actions in Iraq have delayed by a few years some of the worst we can expect from this seismic shift in global politics.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5345

You remember Nasser and the Suez debacle, it was the US that completely opposed England’s attempt to reinforce their colonial interests. The US doesn’t care for global hegemony like some balloon heads claim. They care about the US and protecting themselves from ppl who hate them. (Lots of ppl hate America its has what they don’t)

It was only when some planes were flown into their buildings and killed all those thousands of ppl that they did something.

So they choose to fight over there instead of on home soil, good luck to them. Leaving Iraq won’t appease, asking nicely won’t appease, Islam must dominate the globe or it is a false religion – “come to success” is the call to prayer in Islam. What is Islam if the US #1 and not them?
Posted by Martin Ibn Warriq, Saturday, 1 April 2006 2:35:53 PM
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It seems a few of our Poster people need to grow up, or take on more insightly reading, especially concerning the Middle East right back just after the end of WW1, when TE Lawrence was betrayed by by his own High Command during the Treaty of Versailles, his compatriots, mostly Iraqis losing out to British colonial greed, but then promised what turned out to be an Indian-style Dyarky democracy, the Iraqis having to be quietened down in 1925, with ten thousand Iraqi deaths after being bombed with mustard gas, by means of the gallant British Royal Flying Corps.

Just more unnecessary historical pap, some of our contributors might say. But the point about it is, that such historical pap, is re-written time and time again in each newer version of Middle East history, mostly to prove from genuine historians how we never ever seem to learn by our mistakes.

There our UK brothers are into Iraq again for the third or fourth time after getting kicked out since WW2, this time the Brits and us Aussie brothers acting as lap-dogs to our American Anglophilic cousins, all trying to speak the Queen’s good English.
Posted by bushbred, Sunday, 2 April 2006 1:05:15 AM
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Blimey, reading all that was hard going.
A few cold-war warriors still plug away pointlessly...
I know this sounds condescending, but I'm part of the elite so it's in character. Forget all the crazed internet links, find a few good books or personal contacts from which to learn directly about Iraq, its history & cultures, how and why the Iraqis responded to the invasion the way they did, and especially how and why the inept aftermath encouraged the fundamentalists. Especially try to understand why so many who welcomed the fall of Saddam so quickly changed into resistance fighters.
The information's readily available from enough sources to get close to the truth.
And us ancients hoped the US had learned from the Vietnam experience...
It's obvious why the US invaded and why it will continue its hegemony in the middle east whatever the outcome of the resistance in the next few years. Those bases all positioned so close to the borders with Iraq's neighbours should provide one clue. My best guess at present is that they'll withdraw in stages with reducing complement to some or all of them as security slowly improves. They'll try to maintain a presence of some kind - permanently if possible.
Lies have been the essence of politics all my life, and I'm old.
A good rule is - ask yourself who'll benefit from this behaviour and how. Then you'll understand why. The wily old journalist who confronted George last week with the insistent question, "Just why did we invade Iraq?" knew the answer, but George just couldn't bring himself to address it directly. An embarrassing moment, but pure politics.
Posted by Henery, Sunday, 2 April 2006 1:11:46 AM
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Again an insightly historian might say with such a dog’s breakfast going on in Iraq, with the Shias whom the Anglo triology had promised to save from Saddam, really burning now with venom against the Brits, Yanks and Aussies. However, Saddam’s Sunnis, whom George W’ was sure he’d done in after three months campaign, have now proven to be even better suicide bombers than bin Laden’s terrorists. Further, the Yanks and Brits are now in such a fuddle with the Murdoch media having to turn out more spin, the Yanks have been offering Saddam’s former Sunni officer caste jobs in the new Iraq, and not low-scale positions either. But nothing new with the Americans, seeing they had called the Sunnis their buddies during Saddam’s attack on Iran in 1981. Supplied them with chemical weapons besides. But that’s all just another Middle Eastern true story about the dupings of the good old US of A.

We could well wonder what a modern Shakespeare could volumise about Iraq since WW1. Or better still, since BC times, when Mesopotamia along with Egypt pretty well held the authority as the seat of world intellect.

Of course, Georgy boy Bush, happened to know this too despite his proven low mentality. That was why he told his doughboys not to worry about the Iraqi lower-class ratbags stealing from and trying to wreck the priceless Baghdad museum. But Georgie Boy might have been well up to it when he agreed the Iraqis now had to forget that the museum held relics concerned with a glorious past, because the young Iraqis now needed to learn about the great American Way. But we could well reckon our modern Willy Shakespeare looking at Iraq right now, would have very grave doubts about the American Way.

Yes, Shakespeare would have really had a ball about Iraq alone, apart from Israel and Iran, especially with Saddam and George W’ as the main characters. And, better still, with the spin-weaving Condy Rice as the femme fatale.

George C, WA - Bushbred
Posted by bushbred, Sunday, 2 April 2006 1:16:27 AM
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Martin,

After 711 the Bush Admin deliberately took actions based on falsified intelligence and has destabilized the world further.

In other posts you claim to be Christian - So let's look at some of the Christian values these self proclaimed Christians showed - They used falsified evidence in the UN..., They lied and continued to lie, they used false testimony to link Hussein to Bin laden, and they covert Iraqs belongings... oil, they have used torture, and they have kept people in camp x-ray without trial outside USA laws.

Can they proclaim and Christian values through these examples?

http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=1661

Note the bit in this article that said they might have disguised a U2 plane. Is it legal to deliberately set someone up to start a war? Is this Christian? What stops others from using similar tactics?

Your final line "they choose to fight a war over there... good on them" Can you point me to the passage from Jesus that says this is acceptable?

What made the west strong was that we are supposed to be better than this through Christian values.

The Bush Admin used terms like good Vs evil to blind people, and they pretend to have Christian values to get people onside.

Sorry but their actions have increased their enemies not reduced them. The fact that their propoganda has worked on you doesn't change things it just proves lying works.

Islam isn't weakened by the US actions ... it is only angered more...

Judaism and Islam are "eye for an eye" religions and guess what ... that is how they think... look at the Middle East. If you do some more reading you may find that you have been swayed far too easily.

Remember that Hussein and Bin Laden both used to be associates of the USA. Was it Christian to turn a blind eye to Hussein's despotic rule when he was allegedly "a fried"?

Please don't think I am anti American ... I am not ... but I am certainly not for their Admins actions in creating the disaster that is Iraq.
Posted by Opinionated2, Sunday, 2 April 2006 1:33:49 PM
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I admit the US has never been too smart. But its not calculating and manipulative.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GF21Aa01.html

Henery. Are you religious? Without a theological understanding much of what is happening will be lost on you. Eg Bush’s and the Islamist’s self understanding. We ought to just go by what they say. This is what Opinionated2 is rightly doing. Judging the US Admin by what they have said.

Henery I believe if you filter everything through the lens of mere power politics you miss much. Humans are much more than that. History revolves around religion for good or for ill.

Bases didn’t motivate the US to enter WW1, WW2, Vietnam. What bases do they need in Iraq? After Desert Storm they high tailed it out of there when the ‘spoils’ were on offer. It was the US who acted in Sarajevo and Kosovo – when Europe was too weak to do anything.

Cambodia and Latin America were terrible examples of US foreign policy. Being friends with Hussein and Bin Laden was dumb but you have to put it into the cold war context. Hussein’s secular regime must have seemed like the best chance for local freedom c.f. Iran’s theocracy. Dumb though.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HC14Ak02.html

“Pacifism is fine as long as one is prepared to be subjugated” GK Chesterton. Opinionated you don’t believe everything would have been fine if the Allies didn’t sacrifice their blood to fight evil do you? Life is sacrifice – Our Lord taught us that. Many don’t like God’s idea that love has to cost something and refuse to sacrifice for anything greater than themselves.

A man who goes by the nom de guerre Spengler is an excellent geo-political journalist. You could do much worse than go read him.

The US were nicely fixated on themselves until 9/11, similar thing happened at Pearl Harbour. Yet they were still attacked. What was America doing wrong then? It can’t win. Damned if it does, damned if it doesn’t.

Though the US has been dumb, I think sometimes there can be dumb luck.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HB28Ak02.html

Spengler is right again here.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HD04Ak02.html
Posted by Martin Ibn Warriq, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 7:58:14 AM
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