The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Fair to compare? > Comments

Fair to compare? : Comments

By Jennifer Aberhart, published 29/3/2006

Dunce’s hats and public disclosure of rank disappeared from classrooms because they were deemed unfair, so why is it now fair to pit schools against each other?

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. Page 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. All
A thing to note from many of the words said, both in the article, and of those in support of the original author... surely we can trust the parents of Australia to know that there is more to an education than a ranking on a league table!

As Jayare put it thus: "test scores will vary from day to day depending on a whole range of variables, so how can test scores become the only criterium to determine which school ranks better than another?" The response to Jayare is simply that this is not how one picks a school.

Having recently completed my education in NSW, I remember the drawn out process of visiting and choosing a school, which involved not only investigation into academic results (only possible by knowing teachers from certain schools), but also co-curriculum, philosophy of education, religious affiliation, style of religious education, facilities, routine/regimentation, discipline, community spirit, class sizes, sport, and so on, and so forth. This is not an unusual process, and to assume that parent would just look up a league table to determine that is simply ludicrous.

Just the same, people are aware of the differing abilities of students and the different backgrounds at a certain school. Two points should be made to this: firstly, some parents do wish for their children to be educated at a school with a certain ethnic balance, such as is evident in higher rates of Irish Catholics at some Catholic schools and other Catholic groups at others, this is part of school community, and is a valid choice on which to decide a school because there are marked differences caused by it; secondly, it's unfair to con parents into sending students to schools where they are not best suited just because they cannot view a league table as part of the process of choosing a school, in fear of ranking schools with many migrants behind schools without them.
Posted by DFXK, Thursday, 30 March 2006 10:40:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This has to be one of the most uninformed threads I have experienced. As a member of my (private) school board and about to become chairman, I saw this topic and looked forward to the debate that would ensue. Regretably, the article kicked off with such a poor appreciation of the 13 standards that schools will be assessed upon (see my next post) that distortion was inevitable. The thread of comments, all well meaning I am sure, equally displayed a distinct lack of knowledge of the criteria being implemented.

At my child's school I have spoken to the Principal and we will be actually building a 'balanced scorecard' of internal measures that will not only address the criteria being promunlgated, but reach far beyond. To his credit he has admitted that he, and other principals with which he has discussed this new reporting system, have little knowledge of performance measurement systems, public reporting etc. So I and others on the school council will be working with him, his senior staff and other Council members to ensure that we put in place the most robust and reliable system possible within our resources.

However the aim is not to meet Department standards, but to use those minimum requirements as a leverage towards a school management system that highlights needs and opportunities for development and thus continuously improve the school's culture and performance. Comparison with other schools is the least of our concerns: living up to parents' and students' needs and expectations will render that relatively irrelevant.

I would be very pleased, for the sake of her students, if Jennifer Aberhart were to now respond stating her intention to introduce a similar philosophy and approach at her school and that at which her children attend.
Posted by Brisbane, Monday, 3 April 2006 4:17:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Following my preceding post, the Government criteria - which I believe even on their own will paint a very comprehensive picture, are:

1. Student performance in state-wide tests in the form of easy-to-read graphs and tables

2. A comparison of the performance of students in state-wide tests across the state in similar schools against the school’s performance over recent years.

4. The proportion of students meeting national benchmarks in
4-1. literacy and
4-2. numeracy over time

5. School Management Plan targets and achievements

6. Parents and Citizens’ Association report

7. Student representative body report

8. Trends in student attendance

9. Staff qualifications, retention, attendance and participation in professional learning

10. Parent satisfaction,

11. student satisfaction and

12. teacher satisfaction survey information

I welcome any commentary on the inadequacy of this scope of reporting (assuming it is made accurately) to enable students and parents to form a sound appreciation of the approach, conduct and performance of a school in question and to make a reasonable comparison with other schools, not just on past performance, but on potential to improve future performance.
Posted by Brisbane, Monday, 3 April 2006 4:20:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
"the powers-that-be will have created their "Like Schools" groups, they can feel justified in persecuting the lowest performing schools in each of their specified and statistically adjusted categories."
I think this quote about sums up the whole problem.

One objective of performance measurement, as Brisbane rightly points out, is to use it as a tool to identify areas of concern and fix them. To think of it as an opportunity for 'persecuting the lowest performing schools' just shows how paranoid the teachers federation really is. I think it is time that 'Principles of Management' become part of the teacher training curriculum.
Posted by sajo, Monday, 3 April 2006 5:05:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Brisbane - I cannot really comment on the academic performance criteria. I am assuming that they will be based on the year 3,5,7 , 10 and HSC tests that are already in place. It would be good if other subjects apart from literacy and numeracy could somehow be included but this would probably be far too complex except for HSC results.

For primary schools it would be useful to know whether a particular school has an opportunity class which would increase its performance at the expense of neighbouring schools who often lose their highest performing students. Some schools specialise in certain areas eg. technology, performing arts, sports etc. which should be mentioned.

For the parent, student and teacher satisfaction criteria, schools have recently been including this information in their annual reports - at least ours has. However the surveys sent out to parents are pretty hit and miss and only a minority parents actually respond. I do not believe that there is any measurement of bias in these surveys. It would be useful to have data on percentage of respondants and address the validity of the survey process. The scraps of paper that ours are sent out on - especially once they have been screwed up inside school bags - hardly looks like official documentation.

It would also be necessary to provide information on population sizes and confidence intervals as it is unfair to judge very small schools by statistical methods. I would prefer some sort of accreditation scheme that indicates whether schools have met certain criteria at various levels for this reason.
Posted by sajo, Monday, 3 April 2006 6:04:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Contrary to assumptions, I am not a member of the Teacher’s Federation but I do empathise with its stand on this issue because I am unconvinced that statistically adjusted comparative data is a suitable way to measure a school’s academic worth. Overseas’ experience seems to concede that there have been a number of measurement problems encountered with their formulae for grouping ‘similar schools’. There have also been concerns that the statistics used may not adequately isolate student gain attributable only to the school and not to home factors even when viewing a particular school’s internal year by year data.

This particular sort of system is open to corruption and in some cases has been found to lead to narrowing the educational focus to ‘teaching the test’, schools favouring the intake of children who can increase their score and seeking ways to preclude low scoring children from taking the test as well as even the alteration of test scores.

As a teacher of children with literacy problems, I have no problem with diagnostic tests that are useful in helping pinpoint an individual child’s weaknesses providing there is suitable remedial follow up but I do have a problem comparing young children against each other through bench marking as we know that they develop at vastly different rates in their early years.

I am also in favour of schools seeking better ways to deliver literacy and numeracy skills along with the host of other important subjects that help our children become independent, creative thinking adults. However, I find myself in agreement with Alfie Kohn that education today is in danger of moving further and further away from these ideals. (I would highly recommend his essays and books to anyone remotely concerned with education.
Posted by Jennifer A, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 7:01:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. Page 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy