The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Flagging a symbolic burning > Comments

Flagging a symbolic burning : Comments

By Stephen Hagan, published 23/2/2006

Burn the Aboriginal flag too if you must.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 7
  7. 8
  8. 9
  9. All
Good Article Steven,

I hope one day with the Koori, Murray & TI approval Australia replaces the Union jack with the Aboriginal flag on the current, leaving the stars, and perhaps sharpening it up to be a triangle for instance rather than a square.

What would be your thoughts on this. Could the community as a whole embrace it?

It is the most common sense thing to do. Aboriginal People owned the land, and this is OUR countries true heritage as Australians, black or white. The union Jack has little relevance, especially in 2006.

I hope we can unite one day as a whole under one flag. The burning of the Australian flag, or any flag is declaring an act of war on that people.

I cannot truly embrace the Australian flag because excluding the Anzacs etc, i feel every time i fly this flag i am flying a little part of the british flag too, which does not symbolise my country.

I know this man was one not to be messed with who burnt the Australian Flag, and it would take alot of spirit to do that, but if the wrong people were there it could have turned ugly, and confrontation does the opposite of bring people together, nullifying any plight.
Posted by Realist, Thursday, 23 February 2006 10:22:17 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I enjoyed reading this article by Stephen Hagan. Clear, reasonable and informative. Thanks.
Posted by FrankGol, Thursday, 23 February 2006 10:48:24 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
So what's wrong with the Union Jack in the Australian Flag?

1. Most people who live here are of British / Irish decent.
2. Everyone speaks english.
3. The legal system, political system and indeed welfare system are derived from British sources.
4. The Queen (like it or not) is the head of state.

Burning the flag is directly declaring your contempt for the vast majority of modern Australia, including the majority of the readership of this site.

That's your choice, but makes it hard for those you insult not to return the favour.
Posted by gw, Thursday, 23 February 2006 10:55:09 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I also understand why some people would burn the Australian flag - because they are malcontented morons. As our weaky weak Prime Minister doesn't think flag burning should be made illegal, there's not much that can be done about it.

The Union Jack is part of our history, and all the flag burning that our PM has now encouraged (by saying it should not be made illegal) by nutters in the future will never remove that history.

As flag burning is perfectly legal, and OK with some, how about a burning of the aboriginal flag to see the reaction?
Posted by Leigh, Thursday, 23 February 2006 11:15:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr Latimer,

I am an Australian, and I am a realist. I am NOT an idealist.

At The University of Sydney as I walk to lectures I am constantly confronted by students who do not seem to study but stand about and preach leftist, liberalist, IslamoFacist, and Islamic terrorist apologist thought - and who oppenly offer for sale Australian flags to be burnt.

These studnets do not understand the blood that has been spilt under the Australian flag by our ancestors to build the liberal Australian society that we have inherited.

The liberalists want to talk about "tolerance" -

I put it to you that you will neither 'tolerate' your Australian daughter being hassled, threatened and raped by up to 20 Middle Eastern thugs who hate your daughter because she is Australian...

nor will you 'tolerate' an Islamic Sheik who preaches that Australian girls clothed 'strapless and backless' are fair 'targets for rape'...

.....................................................................

A lesson for the UNEDUCATED author who used the term 'anti-semetic' incorrectly as a term for 'anti-islamic' - (a common IslamoFacist 'tactic' to hide Islams hatred for Jews).

The term anti-Semitism has historically referred to prejudice towards Jews alone, and this was the only use of this word for more than a century. It does not traditionally refer to prejudice toward other people who speak Semitic languages.

Bernard Lewis, Pofessor of Near Eastern Studies Emeritus at Princeton University, says that "ANTI-SEMITISM HAS NEVER ANYWHERE BEEN CONCERNED WITH ANYONE BUT JEWS".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism#Etymology_and_usage

.....................................................................

It is Australia, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!
Posted by Thor, Thursday, 23 February 2006 12:11:49 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Well done, Thor, you have taken the bait, hook, line and sinker. It's about time you were told- when people burn the flag, they do it entirely to irritate people like you. Reactions like yours guarantee that people will continue burning flags. Try this- next time you walk to your lecture (what are you studying, to be so EDUCATED?) why not try ignoring the horrible lefties? Or even laughing at them? Coz you better believe they are laughing at you.
Posted by KRS 1, Thursday, 23 February 2006 12:19:38 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Realist,

I agree with you.... I have always said that the aboriginal flag should replace the British flag in the corner at some stage in the future. That is if the aboriginals will accept that. They should be asked first.

I have the greatest respect for our soldiers and having never served I can only imagine that when all those miles away from home the flag becomes a much more important icon than to me on the streets of an Aussie city.

The soldiers however weren't fighting for the flag as some try to say... they were fighting for freedom as they saw it and their country and families.

As to burning the flag .... turn the other cheek. If the worst thing someone does is to burn our flag when they are upset with our country, then let them burn the flag daily. It is a non-violent way of protesting against a country. Those who are offended by it should grow up.

Even though I wouldn't have done it the students who are giving away (selling) flag burning kits do it to get themselves on the news and to protest what they believe is wrong with our society. Again I say big deal... turn the other cheek and grow up. These kids are expressing a view in a free society which is really what the Anzacs fought for. FREEDOM
Posted by Opinionated2, Thursday, 23 February 2006 12:20:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Why, gw, would Australians of Irish descent want to have the Union Jack represented on the Australian flag? Is there some special affinity between the British and Irish that I, as an Aussie of Irish heritage, am unaware of?
Posted by MEMORYBABE, Thursday, 23 February 2006 1:02:47 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It took the Angles, Saxons, Danes and other inhabitants of England only about two hundred years to get over being invaded by the Normans. You're dragging the chain with this invasion stuff. Get over it!
Posted by Reynard, Thursday, 23 February 2006 1:03:08 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I always consider it the action of the most abject and those bereft in any standards to wish to burn, out of spite, that which others hold dear.

Burning the Australian flag is as justified as Muslims burning the Danish flag or the Nazis and their famous book burnings. All these actions display a complete absence of reason or justification.

It is the act of the small, the feaful, the incompetent and the negative to pursue such infantile and destructive actions. Nothing can justify it, not claims to historic repression nor anger with the voting preferences of the majority of society.

Oh and the spiteful and arrogant sneering at the “British Empire” might go down with small minded trolls who live in the shadow of their own inferiority complexes but anyone with any capacity for reasoning would see, the British Empire also gave a lot and was, when compared to any other “Empires” from the Spanish in South America to the Indonesian Empire which tried to swallow up East Timor, a pretty good “governor” by all and every comparative standard.
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 23 February 2006 1:05:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Reynard
The linguistic history, and a fair bit of the cultural history, is that,mostly, the Normans assimilated to the English. Is that what you advocate for Australia, or am I misinterpreting your historical reference?

odsoc
Posted by odsoc, Thursday, 23 February 2006 1:17:56 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
thats an Aye from me for Realists suggestion.
Posted by its not easy being, Thursday, 23 February 2006 2:33:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
MEMORYBABE “Why, gw, would Australians of Irish descent want to have the Union Jack represented on the Australian flag? Is there some special affinity between the British and Irish that I, as an Aussie of Irish heritage, am unaware of?”

do you know nothing of your heritage?

The term Union Jack possibly dates from Queen Anne's time (reigned 1702-14), but its origin is uncertain. It may come from the 'jack-et' of the English or Scottish soldiers; or from the name of James I who originated the first union in 1603, in either its Latin or French form Jacobus or Jacques; or, as 'jack' once meant small, the name may be derived from a royal proclamation issued by Charles II that the Union Flag should be flown only by ships of the Royal Navy as a jack, a small flag at the bowsprit.

1 St George for England and Wales (noting Wales was a principality and not a sovereign country)
2 St Andrew for Scotland
3 St David for Ireland.
These were the Countries which comprised “the Union” as in “Union-Jack”

So Australians of Irish descent, showing respect at least for the colours of their national saint, should really treat the Union Jack with reverence.

Of course, the Australian Flag has a representation of the Union Jack in one corner because of the shared heritage which Australia owes to the “United Kingdom” (again union / united) which of course, despite the outcome of the 1921 plebiscite in which the Southern Counties of Ireland decided to cede from the Union but in which the Northern Counties voted to remain within the “Union”, thus the Union Jack still has relevance to its origins.

Reynard –“ You're dragging the chain with this invasion stuff. Get over it”

Oh yes, some are a bit “slower” than others.

I recall another thread where I made comment to the transitory nature of “multi-culturalism” and the inevitability that “assimilation” was the only outcome which could produce an effective society.

Yes, alot of people need to stop hankering for “what will never be” and work at improving “what is”.
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 23 February 2006 2:45:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Why not have a Flag Burning Day?We could make it a public holiday with fireworks ect. We could burn flags beginning with Aboriginal,Albanian ,American and then go to Burmese, Belgium through to Lebanese, Saudi Arabia and on . This could take a whole day and every country would have its moment .
Our flag is a symbol of our history,and if the "invasion" upsets some, they should blacklist all products, electricity, transport, communications, money, medicines, that have flowed from that "invasion",have nothing whatever to do with modern housing ,gadgets, cars. You know all those things that have been invented and brought to you by the white races.
This is the most stupid reverse racism in action and if you think you would be better off sitting in the bush eating goanna, go and do so but do not be a hypocrit and use white man's inventions and commodities[what! no sugar! no tea!}then turn around and revile him.
Posted by mickijo, Thursday, 23 February 2006 2:45:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
We live below the Southern Cross
Beauteous stars that shine above
There are 5 in all, sometimes we forget
They represent the people & the country that we love

The top star is for the aborigine
Who walked this land for years
The bottom is for all us immigrants
Who brought our cultures to this land & beer

Way to the right we have the rightwingers
Whose heartless views too often stated
Way off to the left we have the other nutters
Whose passion for communism can't be abated.

And in between there are the rest of us
Who think and work and hope
Sometime in our bright history
We will not elect so many dopes

Oh I forgot the little star
It represents people who miss the point
What makes us great is our diversity
All who have helped us create this wonderful joint.

The flag is important for some time yet
But one day it will change
So that it doesn't offend our fantastic aborigines
Whose land we wrongfully claimed

So C'mon Aussies put your brains into gear
Think next time when you vote
For under this weak two party system
We are more likely to get a joke.

Anon

Col - You are so out there with your descriptions of people ... Do you live under a bridge also? You are uncertain of the Union Jack's actual origin... well there is a telling argument to keep it. It might hail from all those things you despise...

mickijo - Now that is being silly .... but if you feel like doing it I will defend your right to do so...Ha!

The strength of democracy and FREEDOM is to defend the right of someone to peacefully protest doing something that you wouldn't do... Flag burning, whilst not my chosen form of protest, is a reasonable non-violent form of protest.
Posted by Opinionated2, Thursday, 23 February 2006 3:10:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
MR KRS 1,

you suggest that the people who burn the Australian flag do it to, 'entirely to irritate people like you'.

'people like me' = people who don't like to see the Australian flag being burned.

'entirely'... no, I don't think so. The people who burn the Australian flag do it for more reasons than to piss people off who don't like to see the Australian flag being burned - the politics of the people who burn the Australian flag may have soemthing to do with it.

- but if you think these people are 'entirely', in other words for no other reson, motivated to burning the Australian flag just to piss of the people who don't like to see it burnt, then i suggest you do not understand the issue. (According to you they may as well make an annoying sound just for the purpose to irritate people)

I never suggested I was "so EDUCATED".

- but I did suggest that people who use the term 'anti-semetic' as 'anti-islamic' are UNEDUCATED. I posted a reference to a Pofessor at Princeton University to make the point.

"Try this- next time you walk to your lecture (what are you studying, to be so EDUCATED?) why not try ignoring the horrible lefties? Or even laughing at them? Coz you better believe they are laughing at you." (KRS 1).

I suggest you do not understand the issue if you think that it is an appropriate response to laugh at the disrespectful offence of burning the Australian flag...

The Australian flag means something to those who have had bolod spilt under it in war by relatives and fellow Australians - it is not something to ignore - you will likely suggest the Australian people also igniore it when their young Australian daughters are hassled, threatend and raped...

And the leftists are too busy burning the Australian flag to be laughing at an Australian who finds it disrespectful... WAKE UP TO YOURSELF!!

.....................................................................

It is Australia, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!
Posted by Thor, Thursday, 23 February 2006 3:37:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Woah there, big fella! Bit of a stretch to go from burning a bit of fabric to raping someone's daughter, isn't it?

(According to you they may as well make an annoying sound just for the purpose to irritate people)-Thor.

THat's right, Thor. They are UNI STUDENTS. They are getting nose rings, burning flags and doing post-feminist studies for the sole purpose of irritating their parents and squares like yourself. I was one of them, once, though I think I was too busy getting drunk and chasing girls to burn any flags. Anyway, they will grow up and look back on their flag-burning days with embarrassed nostalgia. So go home and have a cry about a burnt flag if you must, but don't try and conflate it into some enormous threat to our way of life.

Oh and incidentally, I do love this country. it's just a pity there's so many idiots in it.
Posted by KRS 1, Thursday, 23 February 2006 3:58:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Burning the flag is something I would not do because I have the freedom to respect it and what, I believe, it stands for. One of its most cherished aspects is the freedom of those over which it is flown and that includes the freedom to hate it or love it, for whatever reason.

The hypocrisy would be to remove ourselves from the forums and threads that have advocated the Muslims to respect our freedom of expression and then complain about others that exercise that right at the expense of our own sensibilities.

As for the flag, burn the damn thing. By doing so you exercise your right to express yourself freely while, at the same time, it is obvious that it is nothing more than coloured material to you so you are destroying nothing of real value.

I, for one, respect the flag not for its noble existence for there are bruises and warts aplenty, but because it is the flag of my island home.

Cheers
Posted by Craig Blanch, Thursday, 23 February 2006 3:58:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Knowing that it's highly offensive to many - I wouldn't burn a flag. However, I see no point in banning an action that is symbolic and which doesn't physically harm anyone.

It is highly contradictory for us to claim that it's ok to have anti-muslim sentiment in cartoons, based on a culture of free speech, then demand that flag burning to be banned.
Posted by WhiteWombat, Thursday, 23 February 2006 5:36:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
In South Africa - if we are to go by the book - it is illegal not only to burn the flag (unless incinerating ir completely in solemn ceremony whilst saluting it to dispose of an old flag). What's more, it is illegal to wear it on undergarments, doormats, and other debasing items. Whilst I don't think we should be going as far as to prosecute the young'uns who wear the flag as a cape and, due to their height, have the end touching the ground as some countries would, burning the flag in protest is surely an obvious and confrontational denial of something profoundly important: the authority of the state without which we could not securely claim that we would exist.

Appreciation of the flag is gaining. The British Island tradition of writing your football team and town on your flag is an example of the flag being owned and revered by the people, an acknowledgement of how everything fits in the grand scheme of things. At Sydney FC's last match (2-1 victory over Adelaide), in the "Cove" I saw a New South Welsh flag, with "Sydney FC" written into the Union Jack, and was glad not only to see the New South Flag being used, but also to see it being revered and celebrated in such a way. What's more, the use of the state flag showed a parochialism which one hopes will not dissappear. I was also happy to see the Irish tricolour emblazed with Sydney FC.
Posted by DFXK, Thursday, 23 February 2006 5:39:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
(Continued)
Above someone asked whether it is possible to be of Irish extraction and still want the Queen. The answer is certainly a 'Yes'. The Irish of Australia are the most British Irish that exist in the entire world. As Patrick O'Farrell noted in The Irish in Australia, for the Irish Australia was a land of new opportunity, and they were all for becoming 'Australians', the poems of John O'Brien also testify to this, whilst being proud of their heritage. Away from the strife and problems of Ireland, Australia looked like a fairer version of England. Republicanism was truly popular in Ireland after the departure of most then Irish-Australians. The historical greivance of the American Irish, most coming during the time of the famine, means that they saw America as great due to its absense of England. The Australian Irish, with even fewer coming in bad years (mainly due to the cost) than in good years left Ireland to share in a greater spoil of what England had.

The Irish played the greatest role of any minority in demanding a definition of "Australian" which was not the same as "British". It was, however, very similar to "British", due to our collective lot in which we found and still find ourself... in a Westminster system, with a monarch, speaking English, and adhering (once) to progress and improvement. Whilst there are noticable differences between working class Irish sentiments in Australia and upper-crust and rural Irish sentiments (with the latter two favouring monarchism, generally) on the whole, it is very possible to be a monarchist and owe allegiance to a Christian Queen. Irish is a mark of heritage, and the Australian Irish, though proud of their heritage, are markedly more English in most ways that their European ancestors.

The Irish pushed the frontier, settled and became established (even deported revolutionaries, noticing the difference, adhered to the state and became premiers and squattors), fought in wars and built our nation. They did so because what the monarchy best represents existed in Australia, when it didn't in Ireland at all.
Posted by DFXK, Thursday, 23 February 2006 5:48:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
A great way to grab a headline. It is sad people need to be so provocative to get their message across. I prefer dialogue...so long as everyone is listening to each others messages.
Posted by keith, Thursday, 23 February 2006 6:59:19 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I am not sure how prawns on the barbi or curried rice have reference to the Australian or Aboriginal Flags. Unless ir represents our unity and diversity and our tolerance of diversity. Prawns on the barbi could be considered more Aboriginal than curried rice.

A flag is a symbol of the values of the group, and our current flag represents that very well. It symbolically represents our heritage values, institutions, laws, form of Government and our freedoms etc.

I have to agree with mickijo, "Our flag is a symbol of our history,and if the "invasion" upsets some, they should blacklist all products, electricity, transport, communications, money, medicines, that have flowed from that "invasion",have nothing whatever to do with modern housing ,gadgets, cars. You know all those things that have been invented and brought to you by the white races.

This is the most stupid reverse racism in action and if you think you would be better off sitting in the bush eating goanna, go and do so but do not be a hypocrit and use white man's inventions and commodities[what! no sugar! no tea!}then turn around and revile him."


Col Rouge has rightly identified the origins of our heritage derived from the Union.
Posted by Philo, Thursday, 23 February 2006 9:12:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The chappy who burnt the Aussie flag is a goose who is desperate for his 15 minutes of fame..
Obviously theres some problem that makes it not possible for him to get "good" attention so like a child with ADD any attention will do.
Of course he would be too principled to accept welfare payments from a commonwealth government.
Its hypocritical to feel like cringing about the murri flag being burnt and be ambivalent toward the same treatment of the Aussie flag. But theres my point fella...In doing so he's distinctly distancing one culture from the other, and not in a positive manner.
Dreadlocks form from poor hygene, perhaps he wants the government to buy him a swimming pool if he starts washing himself properly.
Posted by The all seeing omnipotent voice of reason, Thursday, 23 February 2006 10:00:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Get over it people it's flag for goodness sake as others have pointed out a rather peaceful protests action. If those posters are so keen to defend the Aussie way of life stop your childish ranting and join the armed forces. Thor stop hiding at Uni and join the armed forces we need young people to join and fight for our flag right now. Young Aussies are putting their lives on the line right now to defend our way of life to stop terror. Or is it that your all talk or are you simply a coward would rather leave it to someone else? Tell us if you truly believe these things why haven't you joined up? We are carrying the fight to the very people you say are trying to destroy our way of life so what are you doing about it? http://www.defencejobs.gov.au

No I didn't think so you'd rather stay just a face in the angry mod at cronulla.

By the way my family are Scots took us more then two hundred years to "get over it. Grow up sonny.
Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 23 February 2006 10:40:25 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Stephen

Thank you for another welcome, interesting, timely, and pertinent article.

I do not support anyone burning a country's flag.

I do not support anyone burning the flag of Indigenous Australians - including the Torres Strait Islander flag.

Flag burners do not show any respect for themselves or their cause. Indeed, all they do, is incite anger and violence - which in contempoary Australia, is far too prevalent. Indeed, it is not an intelligent act, no matter who commits it - and no matter what the cause.

If anyone burned the Aboriginal flag I would be horrified, as I have been with the burning of the other Aussie flag. I am writing letters left, right, and centre to ensure that flag burning should be made illegal and punishable by imprisonment.

I have little time for the Islamic faith - extremists because they kill - and moderates because they say little or nothing about Muslim extremists. Even so, if Islam was a country with a flag, I would never condone the burning of same.

Cheers and thank you to other posters
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Thursday, 23 February 2006 11:35:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I believe the man who torch the Australian flag and Mr.Hagan are saying to White Australia,(this is what I gather)hey mother!(white Australia) don't forget about your older child, don't get bored of me because I'm not a new cute chubby little baby.The new baby need's attention, but we still need you, respect us as the first Australians(indigenous). Although there maybe have been a better way to express these feelings.

From a stand point,it looks like aboriginal Australians depend heavily on white Australia for money,attention etc.Indigenous people will always need their governments to take care of them, whether they live in the US,New Zealand,Canada or Australia. The only thing is that most of the people with top jobs at the United Nations are not all white Australians, I say this because immigrants may seem like people just coming in to take away your attention and money ,but they immigrants come from all parts of the world and have a say some where,the burning of a flag might seem heroic to some, but may cause even others people to hold prejudice and racism.The same with bashing refugees,it may seem like taking a stand for survival, but may cause backlash as we live in a small world.
Posted by Amel, Friday, 24 February 2006 2:34:47 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I do not think that defacing Australia's national flag should be illegal.

As a matter of fact, if Australia ever becomes republic and gets a new flag with the Union Jack replaced by the aboriginal flag, I am deturmined to be the very first to get arrested for spitting all over it. I already spit on "aboriginal" and "Eureeka" flags as a matter of routine anyway because I regard them as symbols of Separatism.

When brainless lefties and aboriginal activists try to get attention by burning the Australian flag, they are too intellectually challenged to figure out the harm that this is doing to their own particular causes. Australians automatically feel nothing but hostility towards any group who burns our long honoured national symbol.

The more that trendy groups enrage Australians, the more that Australians realise that these people are fundamentally anti Australian, and the more they will hold those groups and any cause which they promote in utter contempt.
Posted by redneck, Friday, 24 February 2006 4:41:03 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I think it's kinda like "tolerance fatigue"

lately the racist card has become worn out with irresponsible use, by the PC and islamists.

which is a bad thing for anyone who is copping any actual racism, as no one will hear them anymore.

people are murdered, sued, boycotted, beaten, raped etc for opinions against islam or not bin muslim..... then tolerance and understanding is demanded. No one acknowlages it, it kills any other voices who may have a genuine complaint.

PC and islam have a lot to answer for

(sorry for sloppy spelling, tired)
Posted by meredith, Friday, 24 February 2006 4:48:41 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Amiel,
You would have to be the most racist and anti-Australian person postiong on this site. With your infantile comments:

Quote 1. "I believe the man who torch the Australian flag and Mr.Hagan are saying to White Australia...hey mother!(white Australia) don't forget about your older child, don't get bored of me because I'm not a new cute chubby little baby.The new baby need's attention, but we still need you, respect us as the first Australians(indigenous). Although there maybe have been a better way to express these feelings."

Reply:
The flag does not represent White Australia. Our flag is not racist as you imply, as many honourable Aboriginal Australians fought under this flag and against Japanese Imperialism. It does not represent White Australia as you wish to promote here.

Quote 2. "The only thing is that most of the people with top jobs at the United Nations are not all white Australians, [What you are saying? UNAUSTRALIAN] I say this because immigrants may seem like people just coming in to take away your [YOUR!! ARE YOU ALSO A TAX PAYER?] attention and money ,but they immigrants come from all parts of the world and have a say some where,the burning of a flag might seem heroic to some, but may cause even others people to hold prejudice and racism [WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DROP THE SEPARATISM AND BECOME ONE OF US?].The same with bashing refugees [WHO IS BASHING REFUGEES OTHER THAN CRIMINALS VIOLATING AUSTRALIAN LAW?],it may seem like taking a stand for survival, but may cause backlash as we live in a small world. - Posted by Amel, Friday, 24 February 2006 2:34:47 "

The United Nations is an inept body that will accept Muslim thugs like Megarbie into determining world policy. It should be dismissed!
Posted by Philo, Friday, 24 February 2006 7:29:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi y'all
I suppose one shouldn't expect high standards in OLO. But, I didn't expect someone like Col to stoop to castigating someone over their lack of cultural knowldege and then, in a false show of erudition, plagiarise and misquote Wikpedia.

St David is the patron saint of Wales. The contribtion of Ireland (Post Union) is the cross of St. Patrick, unsurprisingly. Col, if you could read to a 6th grade standard, you'd have been able to follow the article.

Jingoism and bluster do not make good arguments, just hot air. This kind of chest-thumping, self-righteous nationalism would have been appropriate in WW II Germany. It is certainly not the kind of bovine faeces that motivated the many of the ANZACs or the WW II diggers, well not according to their letters and post-war writings that I've seen anyway. They would probably be ashamed of both sides of this debate.

odsoc
Posted by odsoc, Friday, 24 February 2006 8:42:11 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The Australian Flag was created during the time of the British Empire, so it symbolized with being part of the British Empire.
There are hundreds of British Flags that have the Union Jack in a position of superiority. all those who support the present flag do so because they are living in the past, they say they are Australian, when in fact they are subjects of a British Queen, we must remember the Union Jack was carried high in the Mad scramble for Africa, it was carried high when the Empire builders over ran Indo/China it became a symble of death and destruction, it was carried high in Cronulla by white extremists. in Australia it was carried by the invaders who said this land was for the taking under British Law, that flag has history and should not be burned , because it is all we have, I dont want to be continuouslly identified with a lost British Empire, we need a flag that represents every Australian, we will have no culture till we have a flag every Australian loves, maybe it is time for those people who are disguised as Australians, the British Royalists to pack their bags and go back to the mother country they love.and take the Union Jack with them. I respect both flags, but the future is what is important, so the time has come to lower the present Australian flag for the last time and sent it home to Britain,
Posted by mangotreeone1, Friday, 24 February 2006 8:44:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
col rouge,
As an atheist aussie of Irish descent, an ancient national saint is hardly comparable to the centuries of English oppression of the Irish. Might does not make something right.
Posted by MEMORYBABE, Friday, 24 February 2006 9:08:06 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I think burning flags is okay – provided you’re not in an area where there is a total fire ban in which case the flag burners should be prosecuted… I also wonder about the workplace health and safety aspects of flag burning… maybe there should be an OH&S procedure no burning flags without a fire extinguisher on hand and other bureaucratic rules tee hee
Posted by Pedant, Friday, 24 February 2006 9:59:45 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
hmmm interesting stephen, lovely to read bout your curry experience on 26 january, oh and that of your family's exploits.

i dont agree with the burning of the flag, i dont think it gets our cause any better deals or recognitions because of it. ok so i can understand the frustration toward what the flag represents but i still dont agree with the act itself - it seems to have done more harm than good.

our communities dont need leaders who are immature enough to think that that kind of sensationalism is necessary or leaning toward solution building. our communities need people who can articulate our issues and bring us together to develop the right solutions. flag burning aint it, the national indigenous council aint it either unfortunately.
Posted by kalalli, Friday, 24 February 2006 10:59:55 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I don't think anyone here actually agrees with burning a flag and I suspect most if not all wouldn't burn one.

As so many people are offended by it, for whatever reason, I don't think it has the desired effect. But getting on TV for a minority group may lead to people becoming aware of their plight. Afterall we are all discussing it so it worked.

So what are the aborigines asking for in this case?

For us whiteys to understand why the day we celebrate as Australia day is offensive to them. Seems we whiteys are allowed to be offended at burning the flag but aborigines aren't allowed to be offended at our celebrating the day that their lives were destroyed and changed forever.

What shocks me even more is that many whiteys who use the term invasion and have hard hearts would call themselves Christian and use the term to rub it in. How unChristian .... where are the Christian values there?

Where are the Christian values of compassion, caring, love and respect when you live in denial that the aborigines have been so badly treated. Could you have copped such treatments?

When Jesus walked the Earth he used the word hypocrits... well guess what nothing has changed... many of his flock are still hypocrits. I guess they didn't learn from their master.

I think one of the greatest things that I learnt from Christian thinking and values was the ability to put yourself in someone elses position non-judgmentally and with empathy.

Why don't Christians try and put themselves in an aborigines position? Imagine someone walking into your home, taking it from you, fencing you out of your land and taking away all your rights. Then changing the way you have lived over thousands of years. Could you take that - of course you couldn't?

If you attempt to think like that you may just understand why a person might burn a flag PLUS you might actually become a better Christian.

Good luck... I suspect your faith isn't as strong as many of you would proclaim!
Posted by Opinionated2, Friday, 24 February 2006 1:18:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@philo

Reply:

The flag does not represent White Australia. Our flag is not racist as you imply, as many honourable Aboriginal Australians fought under this flag and against Japanese Imperialism. It does not represent White Australia as you wish to promote here.

I didn't say the flag was racist it self, (putting words in my mouth).I said the man who torch the flag is trying to send a message to Australia(white),because the government and Australia is predominantly white. In other words, they want to be treated with way more respect,they want Recognition as the First Australians, Indigenous. If most of white Australia can get the best health care,housing,etc much more than some new immigrants can.Why can't Indigenous Aussies get the same ? They want the government to take them more seriously,not as second class citizens.That means not looking at how much money the government has spent on them,as if their doing charity work or something. Respect and care for them as Indigenous people,or else Australia will forever be seen as a racist country.

The United Nations is an inept body that will accept Muslim thugs like Megarbie into determining world policy. It should be dismissed!

Robert Mugabe is most certainly a thug,but I don't think he's muslim at all.I do agree with you that some of the people at the U.N. are heartless,but unfortunaly their to well established to dismissed now.
Posted by Amel, Friday, 24 February 2006 7:15:10 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Opinionat2 “Do you live under a bridge also? “

You must be well acquainted with sub-viaduct living. So, if I ever needed to (live under a bridge), I will come and check with you first.

Sorry the comment offended you, I was not thinking far enough ahead and should have realised you are a troll.

“You are uncertain of the Union Jack's actual origin”

Yeah, sorry forgot to give due credit to the website

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Union_Jack

Oh and I would anyone that the settlement of Australia did not rely exclusively or excessively on the “Irish” (who were, obviously, among those nationals properly described as “British” anyway)!

Apart from a few Irish rebels, many of the prisoners of the early fleets were prisoners from the London area and were shipped to relieve the overcrowding in the Thames floating prisons of the time (as well as the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they came from Dorset). Then of course, there were alot of British military personnel (of mixed English/Irish/Scottish and Welsh descent) and a significant number of free settlers, again, from all over Britain.

Odsoc – posting constraints of this site limit corrections to ones oversights and writing slips, of course St David is to Wales what St Patrick is to Ireland.

MEMORYBABE “English oppression of the Irish”

As Reynard said

“You're dragging the chain with this invasion stuff. Get over it! “ – just replace “invasion” with “Irish oppression”, yawn.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 25 February 2006 2:52:15 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Union Jack= symbols of Ireland,Scotland,England combined.

What.....is it, to be “Australian” ?

For some, the vine covered hills of Tuscany, the art of MichealAngelo and genius of DaVinci.

and for others, it is the turquoise sea and the Greek Islands, the triumphal pomp of Alexander, the grandeur of the Parthenon,

for still more, -the vast green paddy fields and jungle covered hills of Asia, and for others the hot deserts of Arabia, with ghostly images of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael,Jacob,Esau

Yet for most of us, in the confines of our hearts, known or unaware, -this:

The love of field and coppice,
Of green and shaded lanes,
Of ordered woods and gardens
Is running in your veins;
Strong love of grey-blue distance,
Brown streams and soft, dim skies -
I know but cannot share it,
My love is otherwise.

I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains,
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel sea,
Her beauty and her terror -
The wide brown land for me.

These 2 stanza’s of Dorothy Mackella’s poem “A Sunburnt Country” show the connection with history and land, with union Jack and British Isle, and with a history also going back before Caesar, of Irish Jigs, and Celtic chants, of Hadrians wall, and the battle cry of Braveheart and the Magna Carta.

The 2nd stanza is the anthem of the birth of a new nation, a people of a new land, a people who cannot be separated from their past, and will not be separated from their future.
Perhaps the 3rd Stanza of Dorothy’s poem should read:

[Our eyes surveyed their glazing eyes and saddened darkened faces,
They watched us come and move around, and take all of their places.
What a bitter cup, that some must drink, that we might build anew
May God above, help us to think, and in our hearts review.]

Each group, people movement, has its history and traditions, sacred places and stories.
Ours are but one of them, but they are ours.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 25 February 2006 7:47:25 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Col, Col, Col, what are we to do with you old fella.

You can't upset me with name calling Col... A troll Ouch! That hurts!

The reason I asked that question was to give you a subtle hint about name calling... It undermines your intellect... and people may start to ignore you... I won't because I enjoy our banter...

Personally I think you make some quite good points on occassion but then you let yourself down with name calling. Would you accept your kids calling you names Col? You are starting to sound like a person who can dish it out but can't take it... Are you one of those? Never mind old fella.

Now that we understand each other... perhaps you can take a chill pill and relax.

Back to the topic.... I personally was more offended by the spitting on the flag which noone seems to have mentioned. Not because it was on the flag... I just think spitting is a disgusting ugly habit.
Posted by Opinionated2, Saturday, 25 February 2006 12:18:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Just about all the 'white'people from different nations are the descendants of invaded and invading nations. England and Ireland have been invaded over and over. It is history ,it happened, get over it.
Many aboriginals are living a good life, though they have become adept at playing the victim card too.Would they prefer to go back to scrounging a living in the bush?
A group of muslims protesting the cartoons were photographed outside the Danish embassy the other night and they were holding Australian flags to make their point.
This is a total misuse of our flag . It disgusted me. How dare they drag this country into their stupid arguments!They certainly know how to do the wrong thing.
Posted by mickijo, Saturday, 25 February 2006 2:58:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
mickijo,

Yes you are right every nation has been invaded at some time or other throughout history... Big Deal...

The Aussie aborigine lost their rights in modern times just over 200 years ago. So if we are a little bit modern in our thinking we should be able to address that in the modern way more enlightened way we do things...

First thing is accept that the aborigine has been wronged.
Second work with them to find a solution to the problems WE have caused.
Third - change the date of Australia Day so that all Australians can celebrate it together as one nation. Surely that isn't too much to ask.

Simple things really... Of course you would need to be a little bit charitable in your thinking but looking after our mates is Aussie or so I thought. Plus if we are a Christian country as many of you allege
that is what Jesus would have most probably have suggested.

Yes SOME aborigines are living the good life but most aren't... why don't you go and spend a week with some of the disadvantaged ones so you can learn what they are going through? It will broaden your knowledge on the subject.

The scrounging a living in the bush argument is a pityful one... most of todays aborigines no longer have those skills... they were lost as a result of our actions in culture busting...

Just so you can appreciate "sending them to scrounge in the bush" lead by example. What did your family do 200 years ago? Why don't you go and live like your family lived 200 years ago before suggesting that others should try it!

Lastly the Muslims flying the Aussie flag whilst they protested the Danish cartoons didn't bother me one bit. They were Aussies and flying their flag... OOps!
Posted by Opinionated2, Saturday, 25 February 2006 7:28:16 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
OPinionated

I tend to agree, about Jesus. What would he do ? Lets explore this...

For one thing. "Give to Caesar that which is Caesars" when asked about Jews (The invaded) paying Taxes to Caesar (the Invader)

I think Jesus wished to avoid being dragged into specific human political squabbles, and with good reason.

Nothing would have been solved.

He came to renew hearts.. by forgiving sin, and giving His Spirit to dwell with us after he ascended to heaven.

Clearly his approach to human affairs had merit for within a short while Paul could say in one of his letters "Those of Caesars household greet you"

Here we see the beautiful transformation of a whole society, as individuals come to know God through Christ. Ultimately the kingdom of God will be fulfilled only with the return of Jesus, and what a day that will be !

"I am crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" said Paul. (Gal 2:20)

I sympathize with the Indigenous on the 'date' of Australia day.
Perhaps we can have 2 celebrations ? Its a difficult one. I don't have any problem with changing it myself, but then, there are those who realize that 'this' Australia as a nation is only as it is due to the coming of the 'invaders', not that they would see it like that. (but I do)

Why not explore more of Christs teaching, and see what you come up with on this subject. How about "The meek shall inherit the earth" :)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 25 February 2006 7:43:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Peace be unto you David (John 20:19-29 & Luke 24:33-48) ... well it looks like I will inheret the Earth...Ha!

On Caeser .... he told them to pay their taxes... I can't recall him ever saying and let them take everything you own.

Plus somewhere in the book (OK Exodus 20:13) it says "Thou shalt not commit murder" Were murders committed when the Brits took Australia?

Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal" Can you steal land?

Exodus 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house ......... or anything that is your neighbor's." Once the first fleet landed weren't the aborigines then neighboours so the land was theirs. All us whiteys did was covet!

Of course Exodus 22:1-4 also provides a solution. OOps a few Christian Aussies just fainted.

Then of course there is the false British law of "terra nullius" - the first thing Captain Cook did when he landed at Botany Bay was to order one of his men to shoot an aborigine. So the Brits already knew that terra nullius was a load of bunkem. It was an illegal law. Can an illegal law be used to dispossess people? Yep!

But back to the topic at hand...

I'm against celebrating Australia Day on two days... As a white Aussie I am prepared to give up January 26 for my aboriginal brothers as a gesture of reconcilliation and to help me to assimilate with them. See again we expect people to assimilate with us Aussies but did we assimilate when we came here? No we just took the lot. So as a Christian Nation under Mabo shouldn't Matthew 5:40 apply.

This Jesus was a troublesome character... he wanted people to be just, fair, honest and forgiving! Perhaps most Christians are really the seed mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 13:20-22 but just don't realise it.

I will also continue to defend the burning of the Aussie flag as a peaceful form of protest and I will happily accept the dropping of the Union Jack from the flag at some future date.

Amen
Posted by Opinionated2, Sunday, 26 February 2006 12:29:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
oninionated, I get very defensive when I hear poor old Aussies continually made a scape goat for other's misdeeds. I react with all talons showing but it wasn't the Aussies who took possession of this land. It was Britain, the same Britain that 200 years ago would have been treating my Irish anscestors very roughly indeed.
The part white children were taken from Aboriginal mothers with good intentions for that time, partly because half caste babies were not safe in tribal families and to give them some sort of education and training. The good intentions were sometimes wrong and sometimes right. But the whole thing has been worked over into an industry where the right bit has been air brushed out and only the wrong bit emphasised.
I hope that now ALL aboriginal children will be given education,health and attitudes that will see them take their proper place as Australians. It will take an enormous effort but it is what they deserve. And I hope I see it before I die.
Posted by mickijo, Sunday, 26 February 2006 2:07:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yes, but you and other Aussies benefited intergenerationally from British possession and the distribution of the wealth that it created.

Land tenure and economic development did not fall off a tree yesterday.

Acknowledge you have unearned privilege and that this privilege was rationalised on the basis of white race privilege. Mystifying the origins of this privilege by reference to feelings of contemporary egalitarianism and a desire for equality (without actually doing anything about it) doesn't make it all disappear.
Posted by Rainier, Sunday, 26 February 2006 2:21:45 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Before I note something about the flag, I'd like to take a swipe at the accusation of "unearned privilege". Surely the generations of Australians whose blood, sweat and tears have worked the land and made it productive have earned some of their current privilege?

There are three basic things to note about one flag.

1. The heritage of our state's structure and institutions is represented by the Union Jack, which is in itself a symbol for the moderated government, a balance between democracy and unelected (but still appointed) meritocracy, the basics of social structure and our reliance on the traditions of parliament, the common law, and a Christian, European culture. Note that even Aboriginal activists trying to obtain title through the courts rely on the existance of this tradition in order to obtain any at all. Most other systems would have no mecahanisms through which the issue could be addressed. Most importantly, it represents the Queen, who represents all of the above.

2. The six-point star (which became the seven point star) represents our federation of the six states (with the seventh point representing the territories). This explains our federal structure, our commitment to pragmatism of the ideologies (such as "one man one vote"), opting for a tradition of moderation and collaboration between the various members of our land.

(Continued below...)
Posted by DFXK, Sunday, 26 February 2006 5:13:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
3. The Southern Cross in the 'fly' indicates the sentiment of the Australian nation... looking above to a bright, new light in the southern sky. These stars are unseen from England, rendering our perspective on the world both independant and nuanced, as well as our character and our exploits as inherantly different from the British. This southern cross represents not "whiteness" but rather the idea that whosoever of the many groups that are in the land of the southern cross lives here becomes part of this tradition.

The question is this. Such a balanced understanding of tradition, authority and the novelty of a new nation: why should it be wiped away? Above are the sentiments of 1901, and they are as applicable now as they were then. Aboriginal people living in Australia are Australians, they live in a nation with the British tradition (a tradition which grants them some native title via the common law), in a federation of states and territories, and are part of a unique view of themselves and the world inspired by living in the land of the southern cross. Surely, the destruction of this symbol is not what Aborigines need. To be able to come to grips with this current situation as expressed by the Australian flag will bear the fruits of the improvement of the lot of Aboriginal Australia. To deny it will hinder, not help, any progress.
Posted by DFXK, Sunday, 26 February 2006 5:13:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Rainer has some misconceptions about the origins of wealth.Not all wealth comes from land tenure.The Aborigines currently own huge tracts of land,get billions from mining energy rights,billions in Aboriginal social security,yet remain the poorest people in our country.

Real wealth exists in the minds of all our citizens and when you debilitate them with a victim mentality they will inevitability will live in poverty.

There is a price for affluence and that is hours of hard work,dedication and sacrifice.The Aborigional philosophy of the productive sharing all that they have laboured for with all those who do nothing,just kills incentive.This ia why socialism has failed.Kill incentive and there is no surplus productivity that can be taxed.

Just look at countries like Japan and Ireland with little land,fuel or natural resources.They invested in Education and in the real wealth of the intelligence of their people.They have suceeded!

There is a lot wrong with the capitalist system and the multi-nationals need something to balance their power,however rabid socialism will only take us back to the dark ages of poverty in both creature comforts and the mind.

It is about time that people like yourself stopped seeing yourself apart from mainstream Australia as some sort of aloof nobility that sees no need to add to the general productivity that sustains you.

Time to grow up Rainer.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 26 February 2006 7:19:52 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Its a silly peice of material with colours and designs on it... get a grip folks.

Silly peices of coloured material like flags are symbols of DIVISION. They are not symbols of unity, contrary to the propaganda. My country versus yours.

You dont need divisory symbols to feel a sense of pride for the place of your origin or where you live. But they certainly do render practical assistance on the battle feild in the evasion of 'f(r)iendly' fire. Silly me, still thinking back to the gulf war, l meant, in the present day newspeak, 'collateral damage.' Oh that's right, knowing your team colours doesnt stop you blowing up your team mates.

As for invoking war mongering patriotism.... ah well these war dogs will latch onto any bit of self serving rhetoric and appeals to emotion (patriotism is love of country) to justify their blood lust.

And those that call for war are seldom the ones who go off and fight for their ideals. Like politicians... someone has to stay back and lead. And SOME of the old guard, who may have been to war... they "did their bit" and now "they're too old". They use words like 'coward' to disguise the cowardice of one who emplores OTHERS to go off and do THEIR dirty work.

Fancy invoking murder thy neighbour (pre-emtive self defence otherwise known as agression and invasion) and 'liberation' by death on the back of coloured peices of cloth... BIZARRE.
Posted by trade215, Monday, 27 February 2006 2:30:10 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
rainier, the only privileges enjoyed by any of my family, past and present, were those that they had WORKED and fought for. For them, there was no sitting with their hand out, it was toil, toil and more toil.
If there was any land tenure or economic development, it was simply the result of sheer hard work.
Nothing else.
Posted by mickijo, Monday, 27 February 2006 3:38:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Arjay,

If I thought for one minute that anything you have written was worth taking seriously I'd respond accordingly.

As I've advised you in other posts, you must read much more broadly than Pauline Hanson's maiden speech to become better engaged in these issues - both here and in terms of world history.

Why?

Well you might be surprised to discover how much you really don't know. (the universal objective of learning).

And finally may I suggest you take this little bit of advice along to your next branch meeting. Perhaps you could announce it the interval between the line dancing and goat riding session?
Posted by Rainier, Monday, 27 February 2006 3:43:18 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Howard is Right at last- flag burning should not be an offence .

He knows how corrupt and abusive Power hungry governments can be .
To him it is a Democratic Right .

Aboriginal people show considerable politeness to Government when one thinks of their dissadvantaged position .
Posted by kartiya jim, Sunday, 25 February 2007 8:23:27 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 7
  7. 8
  8. 9
  9. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy