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Identity tags : Comments

By Stephen Hagan, published 15/9/2005

Stephen Hagan argues Indigenous Australians should not have to endure racist tags and marginalisation.

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Stephen, Good one bro,
I'm going first here just for fun. The luddites who think naming racism is akin to being politically correct will no doubt swarm in with remarkable comments. Isn't that Mike Colman a first class w*anker!
Posted by Rainier, Thursday, 15 September 2005 10:51:26 AM
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I can't believe it. Fighting racisim is still an uphill battle. I feel totally sick and ashamed to be called an Australian with comments like these on talkback radio and in the papers. I'll never buy the courier mail again. How sad can it be when there is something positive happening in the community for ind. people that other extremely sad people can so callously bomb a success story to smithereens. I really do believe these people have no depth of understanding and wonder how can they possibly be allowed the weighty responsibility of being published.
Posted by minuet, Thursday, 15 September 2005 8:27:34 PM
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G'day Stephen

Thank you again for a first class article. And once again I have no criticisms. You are the expert - not me.

Colman's remarks are apalling and I will be telling him so.

Some time ago I lived with an Aboriginal bloke in Townsville. For six months my social experience was with Aboriginal people. Erika Kyle shared food with us and stayed in our home. I learned heaps from my "black fella" friends. I will always hold that experience in my heart.

Thank you for trying to teach we ignorant non-Indigenous people.

I cringe when I hear and/or see negative comments about Indigenous Australians.

Cheers
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Thursday, 15 September 2005 8:39:19 PM
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Stephen Hagan thinks that calling white people who he does not like "rednecks" is OK, but white people calling aboriginal people who they don't like "niggers" is not OK.

Stephen Hagan demands an end to racism, but he does everything he can to entrench racial division in this country by demanding that aboriginal people be treated as a race apart from everybody else. "Indiginous" only football teams which are racially exclusive are OK, but "whites only" football teams which are racially exclusive are not OK.

The most amazing aspect of Stephen Hagan's articles is the clear contradictions and double standards which he applies to everything "aboriginal." That so many supposedly "intelligent" , educated people are unable to comprehend this self evident doublethink does not say much for "progressive" educations.

Any group of people who put themselves apart from the rest of society will be judged upon their group behaviour. If their behaviour is perceived by the rest of society as unacceptable or threatening then they will be considered hostile and they will have uncomplimentary names applied to them. It has always been thus and always will.
Posted by redneck, Friday, 16 September 2005 5:07:30 AM
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Alot of Indigenous australians are confused. They seperate themselves from society ,then except society to embrace them with open arms. They knowingly create barriers around themselves to keep non-indigenous people out. That is racist it self! I think society needs to stop treating indigenous people like babies, they are quite capable of looking after themselves. It's time people see through these childish, attention seeking games. You can't suceed in life by playing the victim. If you want something, go and get it like everyone else. If you want people to be accepted your culture then you should accepted theirs.
Posted by Amel, Friday, 16 September 2005 7:18:25 AM
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This article gives me the impression that non-indigenous australians are tagged too...
Posted by lisamaree, Friday, 16 September 2005 5:16:31 PM
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Ha! So "Redneck" does not like being called a "Redneck"? Its so good
I'm going to print it out and put it on my wall. LOL
Posted by Rainier, Friday, 16 September 2005 5:42:27 PM
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Stephen Hagan,

In the cultural wake of terra nullius and propriety property theft, it is not necessarily ‘the tagging’ that makes certain sections of the non-Indigenous community happiest, but the almost endorphin-like release of racial vindication, that overt discrimination elicits.

Constitutionally, we are all equivalent, but a proportion is also indigenous; ie. more than constitutionally equivalent.

Imagine being a part of the privileged sector: greater than the multitudes by virtue of indigenousness and more advantageously representative throughout every sector of social standing.

The reality, as we all know, is quite the opposite. Indigenousness undermines constitutional equivalence BECAUSE AUSTRALIA IS A RACIST SOCIETY!

When Pauline Hanson championed “One Nation”, I wondered, which one? Warlpiri? Gnarringman? Guugu Yimithirr?

How would the multitudes cope with fifty-degrees in un-airconditioned block dwellings in the Tanami Desert and without socio-economic potential?

I remember in the early nineties, pulling over to consider the well-being of an unexpected indigenous presence between Lajamanu and Kalkaringi, to find that she had been kicked out of her family car for challenging the sobriety of her driver-husband the night before.

I imagined Ministers of Indigenous Affairs being dumped unceremoniously into the nocturnal landscape of the Tanami and then subjected to the unforgiving ferocity of the day.

Would they survive? Doubtfully. Would they require redress? Unequivocally.

As it was, the lady in question accepted some water, but opted to wait for a lift in the opposite direction.

How cool is that?
Posted by Neil Hewett, Friday, 16 September 2005 9:39:10 PM
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Wrong again, Rainier. Call me anything you like. Racist names do not worry me a bit. The Germans used to call my uncle Clate a "Tobruk rat" and he and his mates actually liked the title.

What I am pointing out is that people like Stephen Hagan, who wrote an article about "Out Rednecking the Rednecks", is a person who is so supposedly outraged at the "racist" title of some football stadium in Queensland that he never shuts up about it. Yet he sees nothing wrong with calling white people racist names.

Now, either Hagan is genuinely against racism or he is not. He can not have it both ways. The fact that Hagan's stand against racism is entirely selective should indicate to you that his motives may be a lot less pure than what you wish they were.

I personally have nothing but contempt for Hagan because I think that he is just another black demogogue using aboriginals as a means of promoting his own self interest. The world has seen a lot of those particular specimens in the last 50 years in Africa. One wonders who Hagan works for? He is probably another government funded critic who feasts at the public table and complains about the service.
Posted by redneck, Saturday, 17 September 2005 4:40:25 AM
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"Wrong again, Rainier. Call me anything you like. Racist names do not worry me a bit".

Ha!

You crack me up cos you did it again
Posted by Rainier, Saturday, 17 September 2005 9:28:47 AM
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Stephan Hagan - thanks for another fine article. Colman, Sattler and all the other racists in the media aren't just being racist - they are selling out Australian journalism, encouraging the redneck element in our midst and giving solace to those like "Redneck" who try to play the victim card when they are clearly the mean-spirited troublemakers.

What sort of person promote themselves as a redneck considering that the "uneducated prejudiced person[s]" (Mac. Dict.) can be associated with the rednecks of Southern US who lynched "niggers".

"Out Rednecking the Rednecks" had little to do with race but with attitudes and agendas. The conclusion that that article is racist is invalid. If you don't want to be associated with rednecks then perhaps you "Redneck" (and the rest of your mob) should have a rethink (without consulting your right-wing propaganda).

We are all cultural supremacists to some extent but certain rednecks, like "Redneck", and are just plain racist. Rednecks can change their attitude to a more positive, helpful, understanding attitude but Indigenous folk can't change their Indigenousness.

The only reason that you would rile against such positive and affirming actions of Indigenous peoples who are trying to change their circumstances and point out the mis-informed thinking and consequent negative attitudes of the wider commmunity towards the Indigenous minority is because of a racist attitude.

The racist mob support the political incorrectness of the likes of Sattler and his racist take on things but condemn Indigenous folk on the most feeble grounds with shock and horror at some supposed breach of political correctness when they (Redneck and Co.) state their position.
Posted by rancitas, Saturday, 17 September 2005 3:08:32 PM
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I love it when my supposedly morally superior opponents who pretend to be SO concerned about racism put negative racist labels on “uneducated, ignorant” white people. Ever heard of the term “doublethink”, Mr Rancitas?

The only reason why I “rile” against the concept of aboriginal self determination is because it self evidently does not work. How long does a noble idea have to fail before people like you stop looking for excuses and scapegoats and begin to consider that your cherished ideals were wrong all along? Of course, you would then have to admit that the rednecks were right al along and that would be a particularly unpleasant piece of crow to eat.

Could I try to stimulate a bit of neuronal activity in your atrophying brain by pointing out that journalists today have simply become far more balanced in their reportage. Many have realised that something is fundamentally wrong with the trendy left wing principles which have for too long directed their pens. Championing dismal failure has always been a difficult task for a journalist and sooner or later they can be relied upon to think for themselves instead of parroting the trendy lefty party line that is obviously leading to disaster. Although, you might be heartened to note that there are still plenty of old dinosaurs entrenched in the ABC media Workers Collective who have managed to pull up the drawbridge and keep the faith.

As for the idea that I am now politically correct, well gee, you might have a point there. But you would then have to concede that we rednecks are the new rebels fighting against entrenched vested interests, while you and Rainier are the new Conservatives fighting to maintain the status quo ante.
Posted by redneck, Sunday, 18 September 2005 6:19:50 AM
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“uneducated, ignorant” white people ? naar, actually I reckon you are very educated and knowledgable but your life experiences by fate or by your own design have led you to believe what you believe.

is it worth trying to educate you about other ways of knowing racism?

Probably not. Its not in your interest to know or care
Posted by Rainier, Sunday, 18 September 2005 11:40:36 AM
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Another really deep and thoughtful post by Rainier. Ever tried developing an argument?
Posted by redneck, Monday, 19 September 2005 4:23:18 AM
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This article gives me the impression that non-indigenous australians are tagged too...
Posted by lisamaree, Friday, 16 September 2005 5:16:31 PM

If “the Australians ” have not been divided, segregated and tagged, what would all these “cultural affairs” , “multicultural diversity”, and “community specialists” have been employed and paid for?
Posted by MichaelK., Monday, 19 September 2005 12:30:10 PM
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Redneck, God bless you,,you are my arguement! you just don't realise it...keep going, its the best belly laugh I've had for a while..
Posted by Rainier, Monday, 19 September 2005 11:43:58 PM
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Redneck riles against “morally superior opponents who pretend to be SO concerned about racism put negative racist labels on “uneducated, ignorant” white people”.

Redneck that description was taken from the Macquarie Dictionary: thus you are placing the negative label on yourself.

Redneck says that the rednecks were right all along; thus redneck thinks lynching African-Americans was correct, that racist shock-jock radio is appropriate journalistic behaviour...
Journalism like Sattler’s as pointed out Hagan’s article.
“…. Just too soft mate, nigger nigger pull the trigger, far as I'm concerned.
(laughter all round, and a few "oohs")”

Redneck admits opposing self-determination; thus you redneck believe in imposing your ideals on others - and apparently see yourself as "morally superior".

Redneck believes that we should discard noble ideas; thus Redneck acquiesces to lesser, easy, more-base ideas.

Redneck admits that journalists are prone to following popular trends rather than reporting objectively and fairly and thus are now biased towards the negative aspects of ten associated with the right. This is evident in the cruel, racist words of Sattler and the bandwagon waffling of Courier Mail columnist, Colman.

Redneck admits that the politically correct of old were fighting against entrenched vested interests. Thus redneck is fighting for the vested interests.

Yes Redneck, I am very conservative when comes to right and wrong - your way is wrong. Political correctness came about as an indirect response to the lynchings, to the holocaust, to all those horrible historical events that started with dehumanising language - from your writing you're thinking in clichés which determine your thinking so consider that old one about “the thin edge of the wedge”. I know that lynchings, language that dehumanises folk is far inferior in the short and long term to being decent and old-school political correctness.

Sensitive issue that involve race can be discussed and examined without carrying on with offensive nonsense, such as tagging yourself with a term that can be associated with the lynchings of Southern US African Americans
Posted by rancitas, Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:00:22 PM
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Redneck - who?
Posted by MichaelK., Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:25:32 PM
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I have bestowed upon myself the name “redneck” as a debating tactic, my dear Rancitus. The term redneck is a racist term like “nigger”. I have always considered it amusing when anti racists sterotype white rednecks while at the same time claiming that such behaviour is utterly reprehensible when applied to non whites. It allows me to quickly point out the fundamental contradiction in their muddled thinking.

I oppose aboriginal self determination because it has quite obviously become a social disaster. It is a bit like Communism. How many times does an idea have to fail before it’s most vocal adherents finally admit that they were wrong? Aboriginal leaders with foresight and acumen are now doing a Gorbachov and stating the obvious. Aboriginal communities living in the most remote areas of this country under semi tribal law are economically unviable and a social catastrophe. But there are still plenty of Robert Mugabe’s out there who don’t give a damn about the plight of their own people. They have got the “blame the white fella” attitude down to a fine art and the present unacceptable situation suites them just fine.

The policy of aboriginal self determination is one that has entrenched aboriginal poverty forever. But it has also granted expanded career opportunities to salaried aborigines who run the organisations set up to manage that poverty. The degree of graft and nepotism within those organisations has now become legendary.

Aboriginal leaders who promote the ideal of aboriginal self determination appear to me to be insincere and only concerned with their own self aggrandisement. These leaders constantly look for opportunities in this country to entrench racial division by seeking novel excuses to demonstrate self righteous hostility. This is used as an emotional lever to gain more public money.

Seeking to justify dismal failure is a difficult job, Rancitus. I don’t see how it will promote your self image as a far seeing social reformer if you continue to support a corruption riddled dying cause which is self evidently wrong
Posted by redneck, Friday, 23 September 2005 5:39:56 AM
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[Deleted for abuse of forum rules.]
Posted by the_The, Saturday, 24 September 2005 7:03:58 PM
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[Deleted for abuse of forum rules.]
Posted by the_The, Saturday, 24 September 2005 7:08:05 PM
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the The - thank you for setting Redneck straight on the meaning of 'redneck' (total irony here). I have been following this thread and have found Red's rant totally offensive - certainly lives up to the moniker. I'm sure that red intends to be deliberately offensive so I guess he has succeeded.

However, he has also succeeded in illustrating the worth and necessity of articles like Stephen's - not what he intended I'm sure.
Posted by Scout, Sunday, 25 September 2005 6:46:00 AM
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I am 16 and I am known around my school as a racist.

When I was a very small girl I was in an aborginal community in the Northern Territary when my family was caught in a drunken riot by a group of black fullas. Ever since then my family has had strong racist views.

My brother is in primary school and often fights with the black fullas in his class. He does not go looking for a fight but he sticks up for his friends(whom are white) when they call them 'yoghart' and other racist terms.

The black fullas of Australia have the exact same rights as the rest of Australia but they choose to abuse them. That is not our fault.

There is a small minority of Aborginoals that do the right thing and that are productive in our community. these are the aborginoals that should be treated equally not the rest of the aborginal community...
Posted by pred, Thursday, 29 September 2005 10:16:58 AM
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redneck , in the 1800's Aboriginals learnt farming , but were refused land and money by the governmentwhen they wanted to start up their own enterprises. they were not allowed to run in foot races against whites in qld - they were told they were "professionals".
in victoria they grew small crops successfully but the local farmers complained bitterly about their success in the market .
i understand the were not eligble for the returned soldiers land distribution after fighting for us - just bloody marvellous , really helped to set the scene for the future !!
Posted by kartiya, Thursday, 29 September 2005 10:23:48 PM
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The past treatment of aboriginals was unfair.
The present treatment is racism by stealth.
Human beings are the most successful parasites on the planet.
There is a strong tendency in all of us to externalise our problems.
Aboriginal history is fragmented and subject to being reinterpreted and rewritten regularly. I've asked about the stolen generation and how many aboriginal people ended up at the institutions etc. for reasons other than being stolen, and was told none. All stolen.
At the same period in history, there were non-aboriginal people in these places for various reasons.
Its a shocking past to have, we must not forget that .
But at the same time we have to move on.
As the girl before explained, its hard to move on when directly faced with stuff like that.
If we all make the effort it will get slightly worse for a while then be much better than before.
I disagree with separate laws for any part of Australian society.
And I'm not going to beat myself up over things that happened before I was born.
If I behave in a certain way, I'll expect derogatory remarks and marginalisation.
Posted by The all seeing omnipotent voice of reason, Thursday, 29 September 2005 11:57:21 PM
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Oh,do not think that being WHITE is a panacea for prosperity in a place where feudal caste-rule rules.
Posted by MichaelK., Friday, 30 September 2005 1:03:12 PM
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In response to Pred.

I am a 19 year old Indigenous girl from the NT and I have experienced racism from a number of white Australians. However, I do not think that they should be excluded or denied human rights as I think that is appalling and horrendous. However, what they need is to be educated about Indigenous people and issues. And I suggest that you learn too, because the chip on your shoulder that was ignited from a bad incident that was non-directly or directly influenced by an underlying social disadvantage that all Indigenous people face has blurred your vision
Posted by Minnie, Tuesday, 18 October 2005 3:04:32 PM
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Of course, racists cannot be CAPITALLY PANISHED - murdered. Terrorists on spot – that is everybody with a DIFFERENT appearance might be believed to be terrorists CAN and SHOULD be killed, according to Howard’s draft of Anti-Terro Bill.
Posted by MichaelK., Wednesday, 19 October 2005 12:31:05 PM
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