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The Forum > Article Comments > London bombing exposes Iraq War as a blunder > Comments

London bombing exposes Iraq War as a blunder : Comments

By Gary Brown, published 18/7/2005

Gary Brown argues Australia, Britain and the US need to get out of Iraq and into Afghanistan.

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Dear Pericles, I do regret your apparent retention deficit but am bound to respectfully suggest that your problem does not negate my argument. Your breathtaking claim that "the streets of New York were never the battlefield" appears oblivious to the fact that two attacks were made on the World Trade Centre, one on 9/11, the other a few years earlier, by truck bomb. If it was not a battlefield then what was it? A pork chop? A bucket of prawns?

Your quote from Sun Tsu was more relevant to Rommel at ElAlamein, Napoleon and Hitler at Moscow, or the Japanese at Kokoda but hardly relevant to a battle that was well supplied by air and mostly over in a week. The problems of the on-going occupation are not based on issues of logistics or the capacity to fight after a long journey to battle.

It is one thing to find some literal quotes, it is another altogether to find a web site where one can download sufficient common sense to understand what you are quoting
Posted by Perseus, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 12:06:09 PM
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Perseus, sarcasm doesn't hide the transparency of your argument.

>>Your quote from Sun Tsu was more relevant to Rommel at ElAlamein, Napoleon and Hitler at Moscow, or the Japanese at Kokoda<<

It may have slipped your memory, but it was you who introduced Sun Tzu... "[a] student of ancient Chinese master strategist, Sun Tsu, would recognise a very successful strategy at play in Iraq", but signally failed to describe how the student could achieve this. I merely selected an (almost random) quote that showed you to be careless in your references. Negligent even. Grandstanding some recently-acquired knowledge, perhaps. At any rate, enough to show that Sun Tzu is totally irrelevant to the war in Iraq.

As for the statement that the US "has shifted the primary theatre of war from the streets of New York", you are once again guilty of over-egging the pudding. A couple of terrorist attacks on a major city can hardly be defined as a "theatre of war". It is simply a terrorist target. Like Madrid. Like Bali. The US then *created* a theatre of war in a distant country to draw attention away from its complete inability to i) understand the nature of the enemy and ii) formulate a logical and sensible plan to counter them.

Sun Tzu had a few words to say about that too.

"When doing battle, seek a quick victory.
A protracted battle will blunt weapons and dampen ardor.
If troops lay siege to a walled city, their strength will be exhausted.
If the army is exposed to a prolonged campaign, the nation's resources will not suffice.
When weapons are blunted, and ardor dampened, strength exhausted, and resources depleted, the neighboring rulers will take advantage of these complications.
Then even the wisest of counsels would not be able to avert the consequences that must ensue."

>>The fact that we are all actually surprised by the London Bombings is powerful evidence that the Iraq deployment is working<<

But working for the terrorists, Perseus, for the terrorists.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 4:33:18 PM
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Gary Brown; according to “Kay”, your not a bad bloke; so I’ll spare you a bit. Having progressed myself through the psychosis of the Vietnam war and the blind ideological drive of the bloody Americans, the sad sicophantia of its allies, including Australia, with virtually no ideology to cling to but Bob Menzies and Ned Kelly , you make me sick with your #$*%.
Climb out of your little foxhole of over education and privilege, knock down the barrier of the suburban paling fence , and get real.

This is a WRONG war. So far it has not murdered three million peasants as did its sister war in Vietnam, but it will, I’ll bet. What difference if the slaughter continues in Iraq or Afghanistan? Its wrong.

What Gary do you say on the doctrine of Sharansky. The doctrine so closely followed by the mad president, george w bush. ( his admission)? Of the deliberate policy of destabilisation in the Arab states (Middle East) sic. Of the justified hate of the Arabs towards the west?

Get a haircut, get a real job. After all, that’s how it used to be, according to Kay.
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 5:12:05 PM
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Bushbred, the argument that bozzie needs to “read and study a bit more” is upsetting and desperate, especially coming from someone who talks about fascism as if it is alive and well in Australia.

As for bozzie, he gets a pat on the back from me:

“Why don't you stop running around putting the blame on the societies of the world where acceptance and tolerance are the norm and start putting the blame where it belongs…”
Posted by wrighta, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 6:29:45 PM
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I've been saving this up, and I think the time has come. The United States' leading expert on suicide terrorism, Professor Robert Pape, from the University of Chicago, contends the phenomenon has far more to do with occupation than fundamentalism. He argues " The central motive for anti-American terrorism, suicide terrorism, and catastrophic terrorism is response to foreign occupation, the presence of our troops. The longer our forces stay on the ground in the Arabian Peninsula, the greater the risk of the next 9/11, whether that is a suicide attack, a nuclear attack, or a biological attack. " Here's the fun bit, which should forestall all the usual ranters - the article is in the American Conservative. http://www.amconmag.com/2005_07_18/article.html  Enjoy.
Posted by anomie, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 6:41:57 PM
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May I suggest, without condoning terrorism in any way, that the US et al should sit back & show a little diplomatic respect? It is entirely clear to the Nations of the Middle East what the US wants. They know they are being invaded for economic reasons. The US wishes to have as many western nations involved for obvious reasons & attempts to appease critics through the mass media.
The US needs to change its attitude before there will be any meaningful result in the ‘war on terrorism’. There needs to be dialogue clarifying to the middle east that this is not a religious argument. (assuming this is the case).
The solutions are so simple yet so difficult
Posted by Swilkie, Tuesday, 19 July 2005 7:40:20 PM
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