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The Forum > Article Comments > Heads in the sand on terror > Comments

Heads in the sand on terror : Comments

By Waleed Aly, published 14/7/2005

Waleed Aly argues some Muslim clerics may be delusional but it doesn't mean they support the actions of terrorists.

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Ash, I did not promise no cheap shots :) all my shots are expensive, trust me.
I used the hadith to try to get to Dans method of reasoning. I use them also for you, not as a cheap shot. The significance of such events is extremely important when one considers the situation, but enough about that for now. I've made my point adequately I think.

XENA

But dear dear Xena..my my... (shakes head in bewilderment)

"insults have flown thick and fast from those who claim to follow Christ"

"The attacks on me here have been vicious in the extreme"

Are you referring to 'ME' ? I think your description of my questioning of your powers of reasoning (based on very substantive evidence from your own keyboard) hardly constitutes 'vicious in the extreme attacks and insults flowing thick and fast"

Now that I've witnessed this rather 'colorful' portrayal of my approach, I would call you to account for it. If what I've said is as you described, I am breathless to think how you would describe REAL insults and vicious attacks. I could work on it and come up with some if you like :)

I still (and will 4ever) question the reasoning processes of one who

a) Uses Herman Goering as an example of a deluded fool, misguided as to the true nature of Hitler, and

b) Condemns myself and Philo for doing the exact same thing in regard to MOhammed, when we draw attention to atrocities perpetrated by him.

c) Ignores my continual reference to 'Christ and His disciples' rather than dubious extracts from the darker side of history where Christs name was used very blasphemously for very carnal actions.

If you consider 'disagreeing with you in a rather 'factual' way' to be 'vicious attacks and insults galore, there is not much I can say to change that so I won't.

You speak from a secular/atheist viewpoint Xena, Ash and I and Philo speak from faith viewpoints. There is a difference.

Hypocricy, me ? :) guilty as charged. you ?
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 21 July 2005 10:05:07 PM
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Ash all the best on your travels. You have successfully avoided being baited by the nasties on this forum - admirable restraint.

David Palmer: the terrorists are not selective on who they attack. I grieve for all victims.

BD - you are such a sensitive little petal - Philo has been particularly vicious - I am sure he wouldn't talk to his wife the way he writes to me. You have just continually misunderstood the thrust of my posts eg; Goering was a Christian.

To all whose comprehension is a little slow - I am not defending Islam per se. I am appalled by the many christians to this forum who (and I have said this before) believe by quoting the worst of Islam they are proving that Islam is especially hostile. It is no more or less hostile than any other religion.

I think I should have taken the same route as Garra and just quoted LOTR. Clearly my posts would have been equally misunderstood. I am reminded of a little poem and given the utter pointlessness of the extreme Christians posters it seems most appropriate.

"One fine day,
In the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight.
Back to back they faced each other.
Drew their swords and
Shot each other
Posted by Xena, Friday, 22 July 2005 8:20:03 AM
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BD
On the issue of torture.
You claim that Mohammed was wrong as Gods messenger to toture – however has been repeatedly raised in these threads – Christians were quite willing to torture for years (Inquisition, witch-hunts) and continue to allow it to happen around the world (current day Iraq).

I never denied any of the writings in the Qu’ran. I simply highlight that you are a student of Christianity and have no reasonable basis for interpreting another’s religion. Yes, you have experienced it – from a missionaries point of view. Until you deal with it with an open heart and open mind, you have no credibility to criticise it. No matter what you claim.

Me making comparisons with this world
I would disagree with you on this point BD. If I cannot compare the current acts of a person with the faith and the faith’s response, then how does one judge the faith for it’s worth. You say look to Jesus and his Disciples. I say that I want to see truth before hypocrisy. Very far apart right now.

As to belief in prophets, well, that comes back to the basic, what do I want to believe. You say Christ is lord, God incarnate. Muslims say otherwise. If that’s the basis for your argument, it holds no water. The fact that Jesus acted in a certain way may be nice, but that is no basis for decided who was Gods messenger and who wasn’t. Again it comes down to choice. You’ll just have to try to accept that.

Cont...
Posted by JustDan, Friday, 22 July 2005 8:41:42 AM
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Finally, I do not dismiss torture and mass murder as unimportant. I see them in a less biased and more contextual light than you. To me it is history. Ifran and Ash have already shown to me that some Muslims aren’t extremists and I know a number of others who are. And that are OK with the fact that I am ‘infidel’. In fact, it’s almost a friendly joke between us.

So, BD, when the Catholic church goes after those who committed similar crimes in Bosnia and about, when Christians turn to their leaders and say you are no longer worthy as you lied to us, when people put humans rather than money and power first, I may then believe God has a hand in this world. Until then, God is my friend but no lord over me.

Ash,
I never believed Islam was superior to Christianity. I don’t believe anyone is superior to anyone else. The sooner everyone comes to this understanding I believe we will work better together.

Peace and Tolerance.. is it too much to ask?
Posted by JustDan, Friday, 22 July 2005 8:42:11 AM
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I found this posting on the Herald Sun Website:

Taher Taiba:

"...I am a Muslim and am Lebanese (27 years old) and I just want to let everyone here know that I and many like me care not one iota what any of you think of us. See, you can all spew your hatred of us, can condemn us until the cows come home, but ultimately you all cannot do anything to us. That's the reality, no matter how much outrage you feel it will not amount to anything. Our imams will continue to preach, we will still view Osama as a hero and no matter how much pressure you put, you will not be abe to stop this unless you are prepared to either arrest us all or deport us all, which we both know is not possibly, especially since we have such vast numbers here already.

You can stop all immigration of Muslim but that will not work either, as Muslims like me here will just produce more offspring and that will keep increasing our numbers. I have 3 children and want more. I advise you all to stop your hatred and ignorance, and listen to our grievances, otherwise the very thing that you write about will occur, that is, we Muslims will just continue to form our own communities where we will reject any notion of assimilating with you guys knowing full well that all your talk can not amount to much in substance. You gonna arrest me, descriminate against me, deport me? Go ahead, do that if you can find me. See, I have blue eyes, fair skin and brown hair, I look identical to my neighbor but hold totally different views as you can tell.

Heed my advice, otherwise you will just succeeed in driving me and many like me to become your enemies thus tearing Australia apart from the inside. Don't say we never warned you."

At: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,16021757%255E25717,00.html
Posted by Em, Saturday, 23 July 2005 4:59:51 PM
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Dear Em

Thank you for alerting posters to that possibly dangerous young man of Muslim faith. In a post to Online Opinion a little while ago I suggested that there could be "sleepers" here [overall Online I mean]. Nobody challenged that this could be a possibility. Well Taher Taiba has said it all!

I would like to hear from Waleed, Irfan and Fellow_Human and others of the same persuasion now - it does not matter what thread.

I wondered if he could be a "poser" to set up racist views and violence and other stuff? Hardly. I think that the newspaper intelligencia would have done their homework.

If this person is for real - I am really scared for my family's children.
Posted by kalweb, Saturday, 23 July 2005 5:39:53 PM
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