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The Forum > Article Comments > Live 8 - G8: doing what we can in an imperfect world > Comments

Live 8 - G8: doing what we can in an imperfect world : Comments

By Nicholas Gruen, published 7/7/2005

Nicholas Gruen argues we need to dig deeper to help alleviate poverty in the Third World.

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Nicholaus, that quote said it all ".....corrupt regimes... ethnic and regional conflicts".. but it left out one vital point "Multinationals exploiting said conflicts (or even stirring them up) in order to gain control of vital and lucrative resources.
While most countries applaud publically the efforts to wipe out poverty and make token gestures, even BIG gestures, such as the 3 marshall plans worth of $$$ given to Nigeria most of which I'm told was swallowed up by the Generals bottomless Swiss bank accounts.

The live8 movement should place equal emphasis on SHAMING and EXPOSING all players in regional conflicts, including Western Governments and Multi nationals. Naming CEO's and showing their involvement. But sadly, even this will not change the fundamental ingredients of many of the conflicts which are of the Abraham/Lot variety (resources related)

As soon as something of value is discovered in some remote spot in Africa, the first thing which happens is Tribal Rivalry, the 2nd is Western support for the faction they feel a) can win, and b) deliver profits through the exploitation of those resources.

The suggestion that 'education is the answer' is naive and unsound. You cannot educate people who you cannot 'get' to, and in any case, educate by who's standard ? with what values ? What national context would apply ?

I keep beating the same drum. "repentance" is needed by those driving the root causes of poverty.... greed=> corruption==> poverty. At least the Corruption angle was addressed in one of your quotes.

So, while most will wring their hands as a steady glazing of the eyes decends, at the seemingly insurmountable barriers to overcoming poverty when the real causes are recognized, or resort to political slogans I proclaim Christ. Not "Christianity", but Christ. Only when 'Those of Caesars household' are made new, will they begin to exert appropriate influence on the structures which breed the poverty.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 7 July 2005 3:32:16 PM
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Surely there is no better way to do something about poverty in the 3rd world than by focusing on what must be a primary cause of the problem - corruption.

No amount of free trade or aid will benefit the poor if it is skimmed off before it reaches them. In fact aid often serves only to fan the flames. Whilst some multinationals play a big part in 3rd world corruption they are by no means the sole cause. Private companies, banks in tax havens, luxury goods companies, and self employed individuals all play a big role. Even some aid organisations are to blame, as demonstrated recently when Oxfam paid $1M to have 25 vehicles released by customs in Sri Lanka - sadly this was no isolated incident.

I believe that well intentioned people who wish to do something about the poor in Africa but fail to highlight corruption as the lead problem are actually doing more harm than good. How can you solve a problem if you mislead yourself and others as to its cause ? The more people talk about aid, debt forgiveness, mosquito nets and seaports the more they divert attention away from corruption, and the harder it is to focus on real solutions.

I dont have the solutions, but as a starting point suggest that;
1. Aid and loans should only be given if it can be ensured that they reach their intended beneficiaries - this would probably halve the amounts given but quadruple their effectiveness
2. Western organisations and individuals who profit from offshore corruption be prosecuted in their home jurisdictions.
This may sound idealistic, but its a lot more realistic than what's been doing the rounds in the media lately.
Posted by AndrewM, Thursday, 7 July 2005 8:14:51 PM
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AndrewM, not so idealistic - a far more pragmatic approach than anything offered thus far.

Problem is how do we enforce the aid and loans?

Organisations and individuals who profit at the expense of the third world, should be prosecuted - but when these people are involved at a high level with western governments, how do we even raise charges against them?

I don't expect you to provide answers - as you said solutions are difficult. It will really take a lot of cooperation from diverse peoples to truly rectify the disparity between rich and poor.

However, I agree we to need to dig deeper as well as take a more proactive role in the dispersal of aid.
Posted by Trinity, Friday, 8 July 2005 7:56:22 AM
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In the article and responses there is not one word about the continuing rapid increase in the population of the poorest countries. Unless action is taken to stop the population increase all other efforts will be futile.
Posted by plerdsus, Friday, 8 July 2005 7:40:14 PM
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Yes Plerdsus.We have given Africa $350 billion in the last 50yrs for no result.They blame it all on colonialism,unlike Australia,America ,India ,Brazil,South Africa and may other countries who began as colonies that have progressed way beyond the abject poverty that most African countries now suffer.

Your wealth is in your people,and money only represents human endeavour.We have given money with no obligation for ethical Governance or impertus for effective education.

Africa is in more of a mess now than its' colonial slavery.Their new master is now war,hunger,poverty and chaos.

Money is just part of the solution.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 9 July 2005 10:33:58 PM
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It's quite simple really: global poverty is caused by global capitalism. Unfortunately, the only remedies countenanced by the G8 beneficiaries of the relative impoverishment of the rest of the world involve further reinforcement of their already entrenched positions at the top of the dung heap. Nothing much has changed since our European forebears set out to rape and pillage the rest of the world in their wooden ships, except for the scale of destruction.

I think we'll have to wait for the oil to run out before we see any real changes in global economic inequities.
Posted by garra, Sunday, 10 July 2005 10:01:24 AM
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Wow. A lot of the posters here seem to be echoing communist propaganda.
To set the record straight...Sending aid to africa has made things worse, not better. All the aid has really done is further decimate the african economy, causing rampant inflation that has destroyed local agricultural and textile markets. (And that is when the aid actually gets there as opposed to be intercepted by corrupt officials.

See this article in the LA Times for more info
http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-oe-boot7jul07,1,1010818.column?ctrack=1&cset=true

I am also amazed that Nicholas ignores the large private donations that come out of the US every year (Totally 60 Billion dollars) which actually push the US aid contributions .68%, very close to the gold star figure of .71% that Sachs plucks out of the air.

Given the history of the last 100 years, it is quite clear that a democratic/republic society with a capitalistic economy is the best way to fight poverty. Throwing money at it has quite clearly failed and only made the third world's plight so much worse.
Posted by Grey, Monday, 11 July 2005 8:41:25 AM
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Grey,

No one here has suggested that 'just throwing money at it" works. We need a pro active approach - hands on so to speak. And the current application of capitalism tends to exclude aspiring countries - we need to rethink the global market. I don't believe that communism applies to any of this.

Read the posts again - and then think before you post.
Posted by Trinity, Monday, 11 July 2005 3:03:39 PM
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The interesting thing about this discussion is that whilst its posters are obviously approaching the topic from a wide variety of outlooks, nobody seems to be advocating more aid as the main answer to the problem. It will be interesting to see how next month's feature articles on global poverty portray the situation.
Posted by AndrewM, Tuesday, 12 July 2005 10:00:08 PM
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