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The Forum > Article Comments > Children who do not feel safe > Comments

Children who do not feel safe : Comments

By Judy Cannon, published 30/5/2005

Judy Cannon examines the plight of children held in Australian immigration detention centres.

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Andrew Bartlett: You are like a person who argues that because we have had no polio epidemics in Australia for many years that we should therefore abandon vaccination. The asylum systems of developed countries are often weak points in the defenses against illegal immigration, just as doors screened by shrubs are weak points in the defenses against burglars. Of course, even in Europe and North America, many illegal immigrants get in by other means, but I have presented abundant references that huge numbers are getting in there by claiming asylum. They use the time delay before their hearings to embed themselves in the community and hide. Others don't even bother to hide because they know that the authorities won't be able to prove where they came from or that their home country won't cooperate with deportation. You haven't disputed my facts on this or that the local disadvantaged people are hurt by it.

I never denied that people are entitled to natural justice or that genuine refugees have been wrongly detained for extended periods. I am not opposed to reform of the system, just to its abolition. I don't oppose the release of stateless people who are cooperating. However, where people conceal their identity to avoid deportation they should be treated as the fraudsters they are. For people other than true refugees detention is not jailing. They are free to go anywhere in the world except Australia.
Posted by Divergence, Monday, 6 June 2005 6:23:24 AM
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I haven't seen any posts on this and other similar forums suggesting an open door policy for refugees.

Just a more humane approach to the detaining and treatment of people claiming refugee status.

Divergence, your analogy re: abandoning polio vaccination is spurious - Andrew is not advocating abandoning processing rather he is proposing a fairer system where innocent men, women and children are not imprisoned indefinitely. Try actually READING the posts instead of REACTING.
Posted by Trinity, Monday, 6 June 2005 7:59:09 AM
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Divergence:
Your polio analogy is specious. There is a provable scientific link between the incidence of polio and vaccinations. There is no link at all between boat arrivals and mandaotry detention (other than the contrary evidence that arrivals increased after mandatory detention was introduced). You may as well claim polio remains cured by mandatory detention, because both things are happening at the same time.

No one disputes that there are large numbers of asylum seekers in Europe and North American countries - there's no need for references. However, most of those countries also do not have a planned migration program like Australia and unlike Australia they also have other wider humanitarian assessments beyond just refugee crteria. Correcting or clarifying some of your other 'facts' takes more space than these comments allow.

It is simply not true to say that for "people other than true refugees detention is not jailing. They are free to go anywhere in the world except Australia." You seem to be assuming that other countries have the mythical open door policy that Australian justice advocates are also falsely accused of promoting. Those that are free to go, do so (or are sent). Whenever they are 'free to go' Australia sends them, whether they want to or not (as we should do, subject to the qualification that we clearly fail to give anything like fair and due process in many cases). Some cannot go (as your own post acknowledges about some asylum seekers in Europe) and some stay while they exercise their right to try to get a fair hearing - they may not win their case, but I don't think people should have to be jailed for years just for trying to enforce their rights under our laws.

In addition, no one suggests migration detention is never appropriate. What is inappropriate is its mandatory, indefinite indiscriminate nature, with imprisonment and punishment decided by bureaucrats and politcians, rather than an independent body.
Posted by AndrewBartlett, Monday, 6 June 2005 8:53:03 AM
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Andrew Bartlett,
Your posts are much appreciated being rational, well informed and compassionate. May I ask you why the idea of electronic detention for asylum seekers is never considered? Is it because, as one poster suggested, it would not be seen as enough of a "deterrent"? Or are their other, better reasons? By the way, the idea of anyone using a child as a "deterrent" is surely morally abhorrent.
Posted by enaj, Monday, 6 June 2005 9:19:26 AM
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enaj:
it would certainly be preferable to what happens to children now. However, I think it would be inappropriate to do this to asylum seekers when (for example) it is not done to peple on parole who are charegd with serious crimes. The evidence shows the chances of absconding/disappearing by people on parole is much higher than asylum seekers awaiting decisions. It also reinforces the myth that asylum seekers are somehow criminals or dangerous.

However, as I said, it would certainly be a step up from jailing people indefintely.
Posted by AndrewBartlett, Monday, 6 June 2005 9:23:32 AM
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There are very few visa options available for those wishing to apply onshore who did not come here with or currently possess a valid visa. Perhaps with the current situation of a shortage of skilled migrants Asylum seekers that are skilled could be given the opportunity of applying for these visas onshore.
Posted by ennayhtac, Monday, 6 June 2005 12:23:53 PM
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