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The Forum > Article Comments > Corby case a lesson > Comments

Corby case a lesson : Comments

By Steven Freeland, published 26/5/2005

Steven Freeland argues that Australians must be made more aware of overseas legal jurisdictions and processes.

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Three lessons
1). A pretty face is more news worthy then a ugly one.
2). Many Aussies are ignorant of legal process let alone alternates to our system.
3). 2GB's listeners are racist. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1369667.htm
Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 26 May 2005 2:01:40 PM
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Steven Freeland focuses on pertinent and significant aspects of this case.
Without pre-empting the decision of her judges - Corby is but one accused among many - the others - have not received one tenth the media interest and consequent emotional hyperbole that she has.

Importantly - whatever the uninformed opinions of people who have not listened to the evidence and facts of the case might be (regardless of their ability to tune in to channel nine and watch the three ring circus and prejudicial carnival of "pop-legals" and noting that most people, myself included, know, as kenny rightly points out, little beyond the superficial physical attributes of the accused), we are NOT the ones burdened with making the decision. That is up to the processes of the Indonesian courts. That is for them to decide and us to accept - remembering - no australian would ever accept any Indonesian demand to direct the processes of Australian judiciary.
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 26 May 2005 4:15:01 PM
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The plight of Shappele Corby really does bring the self haters out of the closet. I watched media watch and laughed when it was suggested that people who think Corby is innocent are racist. Juxtaposing the cases of the Bali nine and Corby I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, there are many of her own countrymen who are using her plight to express a contempt for their own culture, and an admiration of the 'other' (non-white people!).
Posted by davo, Thursday, 26 May 2005 6:17:48 PM
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I think both Kenny and Col are spot on in this case. I find Corby's face very appealing and my gut says she's innocent, however I am not privy to all the evidence only the hyperbole by our media. I deliberately avoided channel nine.

I hope the death penalty has receded, I also hope that Corby can complete her sentence here in Australia. There are many others in Corby's situation, but I guess they don't hold the same media 'appeal'.
Posted by Ringtail, Thursday, 26 May 2005 11:57:43 PM
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Right from the time the three judges were appointed, my gut feeling was that this court case would end in conviction. We had three judges who all had stated they had never acquitted an accused person on drug charges. Now we know that leopards do not change their spots and that placed in their position there was 'face' to save. Although I am one of Schapelles supporters (look at http://www.myesk.ws ), at no stage did think a miracle would occur prior to an appeal. Within 4 hours after conviction, Minister Downer has announced the supplying of two QC's probono and expenses for other legal needs. This tells me that the government was also waiting until the farce of the original trial was over before acting in a right and proper manner. Let's hope that the QC's and Minister Downer can exercise some muscle in making sure that judges who have shown some compassion and understanding are apointed to the next trial. Lets us also hope that the judge's ruling today does automatically mean destroying the evidence existing prior to todays ruling. Keep up the spirits, Schapelle. we are there to help you.
Posted by Nev@Esk, Friday, 27 May 2005 4:28:13 PM
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I think Davo's post proves the racist point.
Posted by Kenny, Friday, 27 May 2005 5:20:16 PM
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If Corby was an Indonesian women the media would have left it alone a long time ago. But she is not and she (by no fault of her own) presents (and is constructed by the media) with all the sex appeal of a playboy centre-fold.

The public outpouring of sympathy for Corby is much more aligned with cultural desirability’s and the gaze that this produces about a 'desirable' and thus by virtue and 'innocent' women than a clear understanding the rule of law. Steven Freeland speaks to how this almost erotic myopia has blindfolded an understanding and comprehension of the legal jurisdictions and processes of 'Other' countries.
Posted by Rainier, Friday, 27 May 2005 5:24:30 PM
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Hey Kenny, 'please explain?'.

Indonesia is officially one of the most corrupt countries in the world. The Bali bombing mastermind, Abu Bakar Bashir only got four years (for mass murder) and Schappele gets life for allegedly 'smuggling' cannabis.

Go and stick your imaginary racism where it belongs (in the gutter).
Posted by davo, Friday, 27 May 2005 6:02:59 PM
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20 years - beats life - and it beats the death penalty - two appeals to go - and she already stole a March on them by sending a letter to the President... apparently the Australian gov. have been quietly moving in the background with legal aid and a couple of barristers available for use - so why did Corby's lawyers decline the offer?

The outburst of her sister as relayed on TV News was a disgrace - somehow I felt similarities to the emotional explosion and lack of control seen in Western Sydney riots against the police when a car thief ended up crashing the car and killing the passengers... all reflect a complete denial of responsibility combined with irrational and out of control emotional hysteria.

I think she is as guilty as sin and I think she has got off lightly - not that what I think matters - she committed the offenses in Indonesia and the rules of Australian Law do not extend to Indonesia - Oh I do hope they don't do a deal and bring her back here to serve out her term - we don't need to spend any more money than necessary on drug peddlars when there are plenty of other "more worthy" causes to support.

heres an old saying -

When in Rome - do as the Romans Do -

and I guess - expect Roman Justice to prevail.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 28 May 2005 12:29:17 AM
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While Corby is atttractive enough, that's not why I hold a reasonable doubt about her guilt in this case. Like many others who have some knowledge about Australian marijuana production, distribution and consumption, it has struck me as very strange that anybody would try and smuggle a 4kg bag of cannabis into Bali, of all places - when one of the main attractions of Bali to thousands of young tourists since the 1960s has been the cheap and ready availability of drugs there. Cannabis is still much cheaper in Bali than in Brisbane, so why on earth would anyone risk the death penalty by attempting to smuggle 'coal into Newcastle'?

Having said that, I agree that there is little point in Australians criticising the Indonesian judicial system because the judges found Corby guilty on the evidence. Indeed, had she been busted with 4kg of cannabis in her possession at Brisbane airport it is quite likely that she would have been found guilty on the same evidence - although I suspect that our notion of what constitutes 'reasonable doubt' is somewhat more flexible than that held by the Indonesian judges.

I think that the high probability of her innocence is at least as salient a factor in attracting popular support among Australians as her looks and ethnicity have been. I also think that many Australians would have good reason to rethink any travel plans they may have that include Indonesia, as it is now evident that it is quite possible to be convicted of drug smuggling there, even though you are innocent (coincidentally, my own 29-year old daughter and grandson are holidaying in Bali right now...).

Lastly, I find Col's last post above quite offensive, given that his schadenfreude is clearly based on total ignorance about the realities of cannabis production and distribution in this country and elsewhere. However, it is consistent with some of the other needlessly nasty and ignorant comments that he has posted elsewhere in these forums. I do hope that his regular textual enemas make him feel better, otherwise they would be a complete waste of space.
Posted by garra, Saturday, 28 May 2005 7:38:37 AM
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Garra “Lastly, I find Col's last post above quite offensive, given that his schadenfreude is clearly based on total ignorance about the realities of cannabis production and distribution in this country and elsewhere. However, it is consistent with some of the other needlessly nasty and ignorant comments that he has posted elsewhere in these forums. I do hope that his regular textual enemas make him feel better, otherwise they would be a complete waste of space”

You might think second hand opinion translated from the original Indonesian, reduced to the barest editorial highlights and most emotionally charged hysterical outbursts accompanied by the media circus show trial / kangaroo court which has been presented for the benefit of this drug trafficker. The opinions of radio shock-jocks and the babblings of the emotionally retarded is not a good basis for “juris prudence” – for me it lacks the reason and logic which should be central to the process.

I remain with the view of the Indonesian judges who listened to all the evidence and considered their judgement based on better reason than hysteria.

Oh - your “judgement” of my knowledge is pure conjecture, an assumption devoid of qualitative testing and based alone on your personal bias and cognitive myopia (possible drug retarded).

If you want to challenge my view do so – as for making the suggestions you do above – who cares – if you want to change them use reason and logic not petulance and bluster – for you sure will not gag me from expressing my views

– despite your churlish posturing - better people than you have tried and failed.
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 28 May 2005 8:56:10 AM
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Col, you are no more privy to the full evidence than any of the posters here. To vehemently state that you think Corby is as guilty as sin, is simply a vehicle to promote your hard line thinking on drugs which I have observed in other forums.

If Corby is indeed guilty do you believe the punishment fits the crime? 20 years for Corby and 4 years for Abu Bakar Bashir?

Was justice served?
Posted by Ringtail, Saturday, 28 May 2005 11:27:21 AM
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l find Corby's face quite unappealing. l dont get the whole idea that she is attractive. If l go by my intuition, well she just looks, smells and acts dodgy. It doesn't help that she comes from a family that has drug related convictions and who cut a cliched picture of dodgy crims. Her old man looks like a bikey cliche. And frankly she looks like a bit of a dealer cliche herself. She has very shifty eyes. In all her family photos she appears like someone who has seen plenty. Even when she is smiling in those photos, the glare in her eye is not quite right.

Its quite amusing when folks talk about how dumb it would be to take drugs into Indonesia, given the assumed availability of top shelf produce. The basic assupmtion that drug trafficers are intelligent strikes me as a contradiction in terms. The assumption that criminals are intelligent is quite funny. Has anyone stopped to consider that the average criminal is simple and stupid? Year nine dropouts who turn to soft crime as an easy way to get ahead in life aren't likely to be real bright.

Anyway, there's my bit of biased prejudgement.
Posted by trade215, Saturday, 28 May 2005 4:04:21 PM
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More like smuggling gold into Newcastle.
Knowing about cannabis business in this country gives NO INSIGHT into the peculiarities of how that business operates in ANOTHER country. That assertion goes beyond ignorance.

The assumptions being made by people about the Balinese drug trade are brilliantly naive.

Check out this link... http://smh.com.au/articles/2005/05/25/1116950758469.html?oneclick=true
"Matthew Moore finds thriving demand in Denpasar for Australian produce."

Some choice quotes...

...Westerners in Bali are prepared to pay premium prices for marijuana if they can get it from other Westerners ...to ensure they are not trapped and arrested.

...high-quality Australian marijuana, similar to that found in Corby's luggage, has been sold on a limited basis in Bali for years, but only to Westerners.

... One European man, now in jail ...said he knew of several Australians who had been bringing strong hydroponic marijuana into Bali.

... He said it brought "really good money", fetching about 50 per cent more than Nepalese hashish that is more widely available

... An Australian who says he has lived in Bali for 15 years contacted the Herald several times to say his children were often offered marijuana called "Aussie gold". The man ...said the "hydroponic bud" from Australia sold for $600 an ounce or as much as $20,000 a kilogram.

... Top-quality marijuana in Australia sells for about $8000 a kilogram. (For those who 'know' 20k/8k = 250% more. Doesn't take much more than yr 9 maths for an 'intelligent' crim to brainstorm that one.)

... A Balinese drug dealer ...said he had smoked the Australian "skunk" many times

... He recognised the marijuana as Australian as it was made up of large flowers or buds while the marijuana he sold, from Aceh in north Sumatra or from Malang in east Java, had much smaller buds and a lot of leaf mixed in. (Now there's a reality check about Asian produce for Australian players 'in the know.')

... while there was a lot of marijuana for sale "it's hard for foreigners to get access to it" because they were so fearful of getting caught.
Posted by trade215, Saturday, 28 May 2005 4:26:11 PM
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Corby's face is irrelevant for me. See my post in the other Corby article. I like to think that my neurones are alive and well - even if I am a "baby boomer".
Posted by kalweb, Saturday, 28 May 2005 10:20:50 PM
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Very interesting post Trade215. What you say makes sense. If Corby really was smuggling then she has to be even dumber than the Bali 9.

Given the media attention and the emotion quotient to Corbys case I believe that the fed gov will endeavour to have her serve her sentence here in Australia.

I still find that the sentence doesn't fit the crime.

We really need to reform our attitudes to recreational drugs. As garra has pointed out criminalising these drugs is just creating huge profits to powerful career criminals and results in destruction of many young lives.
Posted by Ringtail, Sunday, 29 May 2005 8:05:18 AM
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Trade215's comments give us a glimpse into the opposite end of the ignorant prejudice surrounding Corby. To base any kind of opinion about the likelihood of Corby's innocence on her appearance or that of her father displays the worst kind of prejuddice that I can think of. The SMH article is interesting, but indicates more about the journalist's quest for dirt than it does about the reality of the drug scene in Bali. Clearly, Trade215 has never been to Bali, while the SMH journo would be advised to check his facts and sources in future.

Last time I was in Bali, there were heaps of drugs available. I have been offered relatively cheap drugs for sale throughout Indonesia, and I doubt that any of them came from Australia.

Besides which, I'd prefer Nepalese hash or Sumatran heads over Australian hydro anytime - and I'm certainly not alone.
Posted by garra, Sunday, 29 May 2005 9:09:53 AM
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I'm sure that there are Indionesians who read our papers and think "Gosh, and they call that justice...good grief, Australians have an "indisputably" corrupt system".

Take for instance that case in South Australia last month, where a prominant lawyer, after a few drinks (four or five, who was counting?) with his mom at a local hotel, got in his four wheel drive, ran down and killed a bike rider, then fled the scene of the murder, finally turning himself in hours after it would be possible for the police to breath test him in reguard to the crime. His punishment? A bit of probation and a fine that amounted to his weekly salary. Meanwhile, we have a dead man and his grieving family. I have a bit of a problem not seeing a corrupt system at play in this, so I don't really expect any other country or people to consider the Australian judicial system as "non corrupt".

Bahhh, it's like the pot calling the kettle black.
Posted by Buttonbright, Thursday, 2 June 2005 10:55:56 AM
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Ringtail "Col, you are no more privy to the full evidence than any of the posters here. To vehemently state that you think Corby is as guilty as sin, is simply a vehicle to promote your hard line thinking on drugs which I have observed in other forums.

If Corby is indeed guilty do you believe the punishment fits the crime? 20 years for Corby and 4 years for Abu Bakar Bashir?

Was justice served? "

As I said in my earlier posts here - in the sentencing of Corby, my opinion does not matter - that does not mean I am in anyway disallowed to express it.

I am vehemently "anti-drug" use, having seen some people die and worse some people live with the residual permanent side effects of it.

I will promote my "hardline" thinking, zero-tolerance" as the only reasonable line - for a reasonable society to adopt - or face the escallation of criminal activity which permeates a society bereft of necessary discipline (which has been destroyed by drug dependency and psychotic dillusion).

No point in comparing Corby to Bashir - at least he (Bashirt) could be said to have had a "cause" - presumably Corby was only it for the "money" - and thus was a far more cynical exploiter of misery than Bashir

Was Justice served? - you are presumptive - "justice" has not yet run its course - whether it is on is not served in the end - remember - it is not you or I who are dispensing it - it is the Indonesians - a circumstance that Corby should have been aware of as she walked off the plane to claim her luggage.

I repeat - I think she is as guilty as sin and all drug dealers deserve the death penalty - my view - disagree with it all you want but I claim and exercise my right to support it and express it - here and now and for always!
Posted by Col Rouge, Sunday, 5 June 2005 1:08:40 PM
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