The Forum > Article Comments > Justice and the fate of the 'Bali Nine' > Comments
Justice and the fate of the 'Bali Nine' : Comments
By Stuart Rees, published 12/5/2005Stuart Rees asks if we have to co-operate with a justice system which still imposes the death penalty
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It appears many are discussing specific laws without accurate reference,or is this the rationale for free and open discussion here means? ..oh dear...
Posted by Rainier, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 5:33:11 PM
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See the MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF AUSTRALIA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA ON LEGAL COOPERATION at http://www.ag.gov.au/agd/www/Legalserviceshome.nsf/0/436193B5016655F0CA256CD3001421A1?OpenDocument
I know its only an MOU but its an important MOU in terms of diplomatic and legal cooperation beteen Austalia and Indonesia. I'd welcome comment on what Stuart has asks with reference to this MOU. It seems to me that the bali nine will be depending on the diplomatic powers we have rather than the system of law they have been captured by. Posted by Rainier, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 5:46:16 PM
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Thanks for the civil response, Col. However, given that you have said repeatedly that there is no such thing as society, just groups of individuals, who is it that makes these dumb laws anyway? If the individual has primacy over 'society', why should an individual obey laws that are created by society?
And democracy only exists at the social level - individual democracy doesn't make sense. Maybe you need to think more about that, and while you're at it perhaps you could read some facts about drugs. Your comments indicate that you know very little about recreational drugs, their effects and side effects, how they are produced, consumed and distributed, the utter failure of prohibition to control any of it - in short, the reality of drugs. This is a very weak basis upon which to form such vehement opinions. For the life of me, I can't see how me growing a few cannabis plants for my own use is harmful to anyone, except perhaps me. This is, of course, one of the reasons I support the only political party that has a rational drugs policy - i.e. the Greens. The only problem with that approach, as I said in my first post in this thread, is that the vested interests of organised crime, the legal/enforcement establishment and the ignorant and/or bloody-minded far right are far too powerful to let reason prevail. Will you at least acknowledge that the prohibition of recreational drugs has been an abject failure? Posted by garra, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 5:52:28 PM
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Garra, do agree with your postings, that is certainly an avenue that has great significance on the industry and culture of drug taking without it being a free for all. Re the fact that myself included has gotten off track by scoring points against a certain poster. Apologies to the new poster that is disillusioned. The issue being discussed is the importance. Otherwise Col and I may as well go on Big Brother. (Ugh) LIke Robert, I find most postings make me think and make me reassess what I bring to the forum, and more importantly, take me into someone else's experiences. Ringtail and Ambo have been particularly enlightening on this subject and others. And always you, Timkins, sans hyperlinks. This subject is bigger than us all and we care enough to post and throw ideas around to come to commonn ground and maybe, just maybe, come up with a solution. The powers that be seem to perhaps need a bit of people power!
Posted by Di, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 7:06:11 PM
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For all of the foul mouths out there who cant help but voice thier opinions on this site with words that they have probably gotten from a thesaurus, just letting you know fighting over who has the better opinion is the saddest sight i have ever seen, i Know Matthew Norman, the youngest of the bali nine and just to let you know i agree with opinions on both sides but the fact is i think you all need to back up and get a reality check, you arent fighting with each other and calling each other four letter names bacuse you believe so fiercly in your opinions, you are continuing these very 'thought provoking' conversations because of you need to have an opinion that one or more people can retaliate to. I love Matthew and i do believe neither him or the rest of the bali nine deserve death. I know the people of a country must respect the laws of another country, and that these young Australians were cought on Bali soil, but the AFP knew first hand what they were doing when they handed over information of the bali nine to the bali police. The AFP had a legal duty not to hand over information or intelligence of the bali nine, especially considering they were on their way back to Australia, because they knew outright that the arrest and convition of the Australians would result in the death penalty. The drugs would not have made it to the streets the "mules" may have led Auatralian police to the king pin, or at least a higher up person or persons in the so called drug ring, and these people may have served thier sentences in Australia, and this would have been a more productive senario, due to the fact that the drugs were doing nothing to affect the balinese people, and also due to the fact these drugs were coming into Australia and that we the Australian people may have been affected, we should have the right to make the arrests and decisions on thing that concern us!
Posted by green_eyes, Tuesday, 21 June 2005 10:41:44 PM
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Green eyes, certainly respect your post and what you have said and yes, it would seem you are absolutely right in what the police had to do with it. If they did know, and knew what the outcome was going to be, when it didn't have to be that, they should have intervened, as I am sure they could have. And you are right in us posters sometimes getting caught up in calling each other out over puerile bits that have nothing to do with the big picture. However that does go hand in hand with people that are passionate and political. However much I would disagree with certain people, at least it beats apathy. All that aside however, I would ask you, what on earth would make any person strap on some heroin in Bali of all places and think that they would make it to the other side? That's the insight I am fascinated in. In this day and age. We can call it stupid or evil, but I don't necessarily think it's either. But I wouldn't call it naiveity either. Look forward to your next post.
Posted by Di, Thursday, 23 June 2005 10:45:42 PM
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