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The Forum > Article Comments > Mental health: the DSP or unemployment benefits? > Comments

Mental health: the DSP or unemployment benefits? : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 26/4/2005

Tanveer Ahmed argues the disability support pension could be harming those it is meant to help.

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DSP was set up for a reason, to help those who need it. Assessment for DSP payments will take 2 years and until then it is unemployment support for those who are lucky enough to get into the system DSP is not automatic entry and those with serious mental illness need carers to help them as they don't often understand what to do and when their money runs out they don't understand why or how to fix it. Careing for a young adult with serious mental illness is like haveing a shadow on your soul, because they are officially adults there is very little you can do to help them within the present system (it took us three years to get limited help).

The present system needs a new direction, people are not percentages on a balance sheet. Just getting help from mental health can take years then you have to go through it all again with Centrelink and try to survive at the same time. As for DSP, in my experience you maybe right, it can be of more harm than good but each case needs individual review not a blanket solution.
Posted by TeeKay, Tuesday, 26 April 2005 4:06:04 PM
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I am disappointed to read this from a psychiatrist. You must be aware of the miriad of issues facing people who experience or are diagnosised with a mental illness. While for a minority of people being on any sort of benefit might be a lifestyle choice for the vast majority it is far to difficult a life for it to be a choice.

Is it better to be in an low pay, physically demanding job with no sercurity and living in fear of being sacked if it became known you have a mental illness?? Is it better for someone who already suffers with the stigma of mental illness ( and very probably low self esteem) to also be rejected for job after job because 'there's something not quite right' about them??

I have been on the DSP, it was very needed as part of my 'journey of recovery'. I now work, in a very demanding full time job (and I also know many present and past consumers who work) but can only do this with the amazing support of my partner and kids and an understanding and supportive manager. Please be more careful in the assumptions you make about some one who is diagnosised with a mental illness, or as many consumers are now prefering to say a 'psycosocial disability'.
Posted by vrinda, Thursday, 28 April 2005 9:54:46 AM
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The DSP wasn't created so 90% of recipients could elect to remain on it indefinitely.There are many on DSP who aren't disabled.Many are just long term unemployed.

Most of our mentally ill are in gaol.Shouldn't they be entitled to some of this DSP money?The reality is that the DSP is just too easy to get.Alcoholics and drug addicts are on it.This also degrades the status of those who are genuinely disabled.

I've heard estimates of between 10% and 25% of those on social security are making another income the Govt has no knowledge of.
How can one in six people of working age be incapable of work?We must have either a very sick population,serious genetic disorders or many cunning people just subsidising their income at the expense of the tax payer.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 30 April 2005 11:41:12 PM
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While Ahmed's flawed article is bad enough, "Arjay"'s comment is nothing short of appalling. Contrary to his/her callous claims, it is my understanding that the DSP was created precisely for the purpose of its recipients remaining on it indefinitely - because the criteria that recipients must meet include the permananece of the underlying condition that causes the disability.

The heartless "Arjay" points out that many of the mentally ill are in gaols, as if this is a good thing. However, this disgusting premise is belied by the many studies that show incarceration of a person is much more expensive than for them to live in the community. So, while mentally ill people who are in gaols do not receive the DSP, they are costing taxpayers much more than its equivalent in what it costs to keep them locked up.

Of course, the central thesis of Ahmed's article can be turned on its head, by the assertion that increasing welfare costs - including the costs of the DSP, unemployment benefits, aged pensions, parenting allowances etc - are a measure of the extent to which a society is civilised, i.e. its capacity to care for economically non-productive members.

On this measure, the miserable 8% that Ahmed cites as the proportion of our health budget that goes to alleviating the effects of mental illness is an indictment on our society. If it is indeed around half the OECD average then we have much room for improvement. Blaming the victims, as Ahmed does implicitly and the likes of "Arjay" do explicitly, is futher evidence of our lack of civilisation.
Posted by garra, Sunday, 1 May 2005 8:57:30 AM
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And another thing Arjay, as well as demonstrating your appalling ignorance about mental illness and disability, you show a lack of commonsense.

Who do you think would or should employ drug addicts and alcoholics?

Do you think they would be good employees?

Many of the men in their 50's who now are long-term unemployed became unemployed during the 80's when there was very high levels of unemployment. It is still very difficult for an unskilled 50 year old man to find work.

Could you possibly understand that addiction is very often 'self-medication'; that is, people use this method to blot out their failure?

This is a hard world for those of us who are not superior people like you seem to be.
Posted by Mollydukes, Sunday, 1 May 2005 7:18:06 PM
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I am glad to see Ahmed can see the inextricable relationship between the rise in mental illness and rise in DSP recipients. It follows that because community services and assistance are so sparse in a state like NSW, the great bulk of mental health system users are bound to end up on the DSP.

As a matter of fact, as a consumer who has been involved in negotiations with DEWR and DFaCS (the main depts. behind Centrelink) in Canberra, I can tell you that the supposed problems of so many being on the DSP is largely a product of the government's own omission. I work with many consumers who use the DSP as an effective safety net and stepping stone back to employment (and independent income on which they pay tax).

Back in 1986 the WHO produced a report saying that by 2010 one in five people would have mental illness. While I have heard this quoted much in political forums, I have yet to hear any politician contest the projection. How remiss then to find that this projection has not been factored into DSP and mental health funding!

Clearly, to deal with this, a significant increase should be built into MH and associated budgets (like DEWR and DFaCS) so that, over an extended period like the next 10 years, MH expenditure increases progressively.

Government cannot blame its own omissions on DSP recipients.
Posted by Markmac, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 2:18:08 AM
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We live in a changing society where there is a constant review and assessment of values. However, issues of increases in the numbers of claimants for disability pensions based on some dubiously untestable and intangible criteria – such as “stress” (whatever that is) I have suspicion about. At times in my life and I guess at times in everyone else’s life we have all experienced “stress”.

When does the issue of “stress” or many other maladies cross the line between being

“a real problem” to be resolved by social support ?

to

simply a need to grow up and “deal with the issues” of our own life ?

If someone suffers work-stress – as I have done – they can change jobs – as I have done.
If someone needs counselling they can visit a counsellor - as I have done (when needed – and all my own money well spent)

I understand there is an empirical difference between an intellectual disability (limited intellectual capacity), a mental disorder (eg schizophrenia) and a personality based disorder (stress) – if we are to start to assess personality disorders as a basis for “disability” – we are moving the goal posts – and thus changing the population and expectations of those requiring support – whilst that may be virtuous it will also be expensive – as more and more of the “personality disordered” claim support at the expense of the “personality ordered”.

It is very hard on someone who has an “anti-social” personality to function within society – but how much of that “burden” should society “support” and how much of that burden is it the responsibility of the individual to resolve?

Ultimately, we can all find “issues” which inhibit or restrain us from being perfect. Deciding which of those “issues” merit a “pension” and which do not, requires even more than the wisdom of Solomon - which is alot more than you are ever going to find dealing with the folk at Centrelink.
Posted by Col Rouge, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 10:01:01 AM
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Col

The roots of personality disorders are in childhood. Of course there is a genetic basis and also luck, in terms of how good the hand you are dealt is.

The most effective way to ensure that children grow up with ordered personalities is to be a 'nanny state' to some extent, and provide dysfunctional parents with resources and encouragement to ensure that their children receive a reasonable level of care and attention.

This is not socialism, it is commonsense based on psycholgocial knowledge.

Also, it is not the folk at Centrelink who decide who is eligible for DSP. It requires the applicants own medical practitioner to fill in a very comprehensive form and then an assessment by a Centrelink approved medical consultant. Presumably, these people are capable of diagnosing and distinguishing 'disability' from stress.

It is simply not the case that anyone on the dole can ask to go onto disability. Even to be considered as an applicant requires a long time on newstart and participation in job search agencies which have not produced any prospect of employment.

Read one of the previous posts about the difficulty of obtaining DSP.

with respect to getting people off DSP, private psychiatric and psychological services are very expensive and there simply are not enough public practitioners available. This would appear to be a factor that limits the liklihood of people being able to return to work.

As another of the previous posts pointed out, it is quite well known that serious psychological problems are increasing and although you may be as happy as a pig in mud, there are many people who obviously are not.

Perhaps you should be feeling grateful that you are such a superior type of person and do not have to live on the small amount of money that DSP pays. I think it is around $240 a week.
Posted by Mollydukes, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 10:01:25 PM
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Mollydukes "As another of the previous posts pointed out, it is quite well known that serious psychological problems are increasing and although you may be as happy as a pig in mud, there are many people who obviously are not."

So you claim - yet life and lifestyle are easier than they have ever been - maybe we should turn back the clock, restore the Devine Right of Kings, the authority of the church, restrict the vote to land owner men only and make the wife the subject of her husband - or maybe forego all this business about saving premature babies and let only the healthy ones survive, presumably with the emotional, as well as the physical, strength and disposition.

Quite honestly if you think people are really less happy today than they have ever been - I can only assume they are either

not dealing with living longer or

they are a bunch of woosies who expect the world to be placed at their feet and evolve around them or

maybe the methods of data analysis and capture have changed but -

most likely - some psychiatrists have discovered the benefits of service marketing - and so promote their personal agendas and bank balances by exaggerating the need for their existence.

I suggest you grow up and think for a change, instead of simply having a kneeejerk disagreement with anything I write.
Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 9 May 2005 7:44:37 AM
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I,ve seen with my own eyes and heard enough anecdotal evidence to know that the DSP is being rorted by dishonest people.It is not just the $240.00 pw but all the ancillary benefits such as rent subsidies,and concessions in areas such as transport,power and even supply of free white goods.Some of the hard core ones have private charities doing back flips for them.

When you feed the native birds in your back yard,they become dependant upon you and their numbers artifically increase.When you go on holidays they starve.

Shouldn't we be teaching people how to fend for themselves since they will be more able to weather the hard times.

I can't imagine going through life and to have never worked a single day.
Perhaps I'm too geared for working and should consider becoming a bludger.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 9 May 2005 7:39:35 PM
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Arjay,
what do you do with the birds who were able to fend for themselves then they got sick and needed help? You help them to get well and then if possible release them back to fend for themselves again.

DSP is the same, illness can not be boxed and no system is without problems. For those who need and can get DSP it is a god send, we are still waiting to try and get DSP for my 21yr old son, who was working full time for 4yrs but can no longer due to mental illness.

I appreciate that we live in a society where help is possible no matter how difficult it is to get. If you have no empathy a little sympathy would be nice. I am a mother of five and university austudy student trying to assist my son, as well as get by and make my life more productive, without a caring supportive society this would not be possible. Everyone's tax dollars go to many good causes and my will as well. teekay
Posted by TeeKay, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 1:55:25 PM
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Teekay,I have no problem with the genuinely disabled.There are just too many who aren't genuine.There are many criminals on the DSP.The grey areas of mental disorders is very difficult to assess.Just like bad backs.Nearly everyone has suffered from this malady at some time in their lives. Too many doctors pander to patient's anxieties and minor ailments,since this is their lively hood.Why would they want to deprive themselves of an extra dollar?

The economic realities are that our economy will collapse unless we stop the acceleration in those who depend on social security as their sole source of income.

If you think times are tough now,just look at some of our third world neighbours where the real disabled beg and die in the streets.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 7:19:45 PM
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I have been a DSP recipient for around 2 years. At the age of 31, I had not worked for most of my life. Apart from a history of depression, and being forced to leave home at 18 due to a hostile home environment [unbeknownst to those who drove past the manicured lawns and irrigated gardens surrounding our then 40 square home]. I was unable to obtain sustainable, decently paid long-term employment using any of my skills for most of my adult life and in that my sexual orientation and lifestyle was a decent factor. This was the forerunner to a long battle with depression I'm only partly recovered from now. As the eldest child of a rich merchant family I had to contend with the humiliation of my sole other sibling, a heterosexual brother 4 years my junior getting the world on a silver platter while I lived in crisis accommodation, share houses where I got ripped off, the floor of a friends bedroom [size 4x3m] and at various times having to contemplate the prospect of wandering out into the perilous nocturnal world in order to supplement my under-the-poverty-line income. I visited Melbourne recently, my first flight since I was with my family over 15 or more years ago--however with my meager funds wiped out, there was time spent in a parking lot between Ackland and Barkly St of a certain bayside suburb while most other folks were in bed.

As for the performance of job agencies, I was unable to find one willing to try hard enough to help. So those who criticize the DSP and recipients, don't you dare.....come out of your homes and take a look at how other people live. The truth will probably shock you. Certainly at 16, I could not have imagined the existence of places like the Belford Street West Carpark St Kilda, though my city of residence, Sydney is much more fast-paced.
Posted by Inner-Sydney based transsexual, indigent outcast progeny of merchant family, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 3:15:55 PM
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