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The Forum > Article Comments > So what does it mean to be a man? > Comments

So what does it mean to be a man? : Comments

By Mark Christensen, published 29/3/2005

Mark Christensen poses the question: what does it mean to be a man?

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Mark, a heartfelt thanks for writing this piece. It is definitely something to be encouraged, as we men don’t do enough of it. Indeed, let’s take that “collective breath” together…

I still struggle with “relate, don’t fix”. Telling my daughter that I loved her but not being able to answer why, probably falls within the boundaries of that dreaded rule. However, just as this situation seems to need a “fix”, so did countless others, I found afterwards, while I was busy “relating” (talk about black and white!).

Always assume the drama. Then find solutions without these being attributable to you. You are not meant to act as if your family’s happiness or well-being depended on you. After all, there are fathers out there who DO know why they love their daughters (and let them sleep-over, go on dates, and buy them nice things).

“Being a naïve young father” provides perhaps the best chance for us of being one. If, as you say, “Eventually, you have to push on alone in search of sustained meaning”, then maybe, just maybe, your job is already done. Your loving wife may have also come to similar conclusions. This is where Timkins’ comments would come in.

“The disillusionment is further compounded when we realise there is no way to think or argue our way back to what we have lost along the way.” I connect – but what’s the solution Mr Fix-it (please don’t tell us you’ll be joining our ranks anytime soon)?

Happy, now please in English: “But their claims had (and have) no empirical support: the literature and the available studies show that the Family Court makes orders (in contested cases) in favour of fathers at twice the rate of those made by consent.” Does this men that if fathers got their way in 5% of cases “by consent”, the Family Court ruled their way in 10% of the contested cases? Sounds like progress, if true.
Posted by Seeker, Tuesday, 29 March 2005 10:53:51 PM
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It's not all about you, Timmy. Read the posts of some of the blokes here who don't share your fear of women.

Morgan
Posted by morganzola, Wednesday, 30 March 2005 8:13:38 AM
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Mark , its easier in life to gauge someones acts when you know where they are coming from , essentially its a window to where they have been , your article displays an alarming co dependancey on maternal figureheads and justification , this is charatorised by your God type writtings .

Whilst these writtings may be some form of overall warm fuzzy feeling for you , its fanciful to believe they are universal or even benifit the majority .

Mens status and abuse is as real as anyother section of the community however with mens issues and being a man it is systemic and instatutionalised , there is hardly anyone who feels the family courts , the criminal courts womens convictions are 29 times less for the same body of evidence given to test panels .

What it means to be a man may well reflect your position but not a great majority .
Posted by oksowhynot, Wednesday, 30 March 2005 5:13:33 PM
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Women have had a head start on us blokes with regard to alot of self reflection and questioning of their roles in this world. Perhaps it is more a part of their nature, but I have been forced to take a good look at myself as a result of anger management. We do need to assess ourselves to try a look at our roles from every direction rather than from just a linear perspective. I have a much more positive outlook - not easy but my kids see alot more of me now and that is a big improvement from where I used to be.
Posted by Ambo, Wednesday, 30 March 2005 5:31:58 PM
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I'm really glad to see men getting in there and talking about this issue. Too often in the media men are talked ABOUT instead of us listening to men talking [Elspeth Probyn in today's Australian was talking about fatherhood and citing Mens Rights instead of the more reasonable men or research on men]
The men's health website at Uni of Western Sydney tries to have a range of reports on fatherhood, boys' education, and how men can be healthier. There is a huge need for us to hear more about research on men - but not just from one point of view, feminist or non-feminist. And let's get the research out there and debated publicly. I talk to my MP about this - do you?


http://menshealth.uws.edu.au/publications.html
Posted by Bondi Pete, Wednesday, 30 March 2005 6:33:56 PM
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Two further comments. When I interviewed men for Fathers, Sons and Lovers, the oldtimers who grew up in the 1940s and 1960s said "work was a man's life. And a bit of sex was his hobby". Men and work have historically been inseparable. Today I still see men's lives as strongly identified with work; though women are now a huge part of working life too. How much does work affect our identity, leisure,and ability to exercise (or not!) Having a partner, or being alone, is also very important in the way we live. I'd like us to include gay men please guys as well as straight.

It's important that men can talk about their lives on sites like this. When you think of it, where CAN men talk these things over freely (bar the pub?) The universities are thoroughly feminised: any discussion about men is usually about men as violent; or men causing trouble to women, or kids, or other men. Public life is also very feminised: men are guarded and edit their comments for fear of attack. They did in the book I quoted above. Discussion of men in the media is dominated by women: look who writes about men's lives in the papers you read. Men on TV are usually fools and clowns. So- men go online.
Posted by Bondi Pete, Wednesday, 30 March 2005 7:35:08 PM
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