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The Forum > Article Comments > Secular theology and artificial intelligence? > Comments

Secular theology and artificial intelligence? : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 20/5/2019

A single thread runs through the narrative as the various plots unfold; the intentional basis of human action.

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Christian "theology" does not even begin to understand the subtle psycho-physical structures and attributes of the human body-mind-complex.
For instance "when" and where is/are Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
http://www.beezone.com/adidajesus/adamnervoussystemeveflesh.html

The Seven potential stages of human psycho-physical growth.
http://www.aboutadidam.org/growth/seven_stages.html
Posted by Daffy Duck, Monday, 20 May 2019 6:48:29 PM
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The human dilemma?

From a philosophical questioning of the human dilemma, if it is to arrive at the same conclusion, must include the solution of Christ.

The Christian view of the human dilemma, is original sin and it's by-product of guilt. The solution is Christ.

So now the question is; can sinners be reunited with God outside of Christian witness?

Over to you Peter.

Dan.
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 20 May 2019 9:12:13 PM
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.

Dear Peter,

.

You wrote :

« The writers of the gospels are better described as artists rather than historians in the modern sense … the texts they produce … are akin to historical fiction … the writers of the gospels used their imaginations to understand the event of Jesus, not to make it less true, but more true »

Never has a truer word been spoken !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OltyzuDLErM&list=RDOltyzuDLErM&start_radio=1&t=3
.

Really ? Can something be more true than true ?

The OED indicates the following meanings for true :

1. In accordance with fact or reality
2. Accurate or exact
3. Loyal or faithful
4. (archaic) Honest

Can something be more in accordance with fact than fact itself ? More real than real ? More accurate than accurate ? More exact than exact ? More loyal than loyal ? More faithful than faithful ? More honest than honest ?
.

And are you right in saying that Jesus was an event – like the Melbourne Cup or the Olympic Games, for example ?

The OED indicates the following meaning for event :

A thing that happens or takes place, especially one of importance.
.

Does that mean that the OED considers that Jesus was uneventful ?

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 12:33:52 AM
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BP.

The author (PS) is attempting to articulate the literary definition of the NT.

The dangers of this task, you well point out.

For example, Paul's letters to the Corinthians, were written in the second person. They are straight forward instruction.

Where this gets sketchy, is the relation of the story of Christ in the Gospels. These are positioned from the perspective of the third person. He said, she said!

The interpretation of the Gospels require faith and spiritual guidance from God himself.
Without the input of the Holy Spirit, rational arguments put forward towards their understanding and explanation fall flat on their face.

It's at this point, fundamentalist ideals win.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 7:07:47 AM
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Dear Peter,

An interesting review of a book speculating about consciousness and AI.

>>While many writers are informed by the Christian tradition, there are also those who are not, and who must strive to reach human truth by experience and observation. They stand as proof against the view that there is no salvation outside of the Church.<<

I agree with the first sentence but do not see how can those who are not “informed by the Christian tradition” provide a proof against “no salvation outside of the Church”, a phrase that does not make sense outside the Christian tradition.

>> It assumes that God has made a universe that is governed by his will, logical enough, but misconstrued. Its untruth is revealed whenever we find ourselves lingering on the brink of our own and other's catastrophes. Why would God make the AIDs virus that killed about forty million people?<<

This refers to the “problem of evil” that occupied Christian philosophers for centuries (the phrase when googled will give you 7.8 million hits), and has widely been accepted by Christians as an enigma that they have to live with (something like the enigmas of quantum physics that physicists have to live with).

Who contributed more to the gradual dismissal of Christianity as the cultural backbone of the West: militant atheists/materialists, muslims, or theologians trying to explain away the basic beliefs that used to underlie Christian faith (not to mention the moral and other corruption of the clergy)?
Posted by George, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 7:35:47 AM
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George.

*...Who contributed more to the gradual dismissal of Christianity as the cultural backbone of the West: militant atheists/materialists, muslims, or theologians trying to explain away the basic beliefs that used to underlie Christian faith (not to mention the moral and other corruption of the clergy)?...*

You know what George, the Catholics removed the book of Enoch from the apocrypha five hundred years ago. ( speculation is rife as to why they did that).
That book has all the answers to the question of evil, you would ever need.

Funny thing though, Christ (and others), had access to this book, whereas we were denied its teachings. So if we Christians flounder around with the question of evil, and the way God dealt with it, we may be excused.

Dan.
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 8:49:18 PM
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Not only robots could never become intentional, but neither can humans: humans too are just machines. Intentions (if present) always come from us, the machine's owner(s)/controller(s), never from a machine.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 23 May 2019 7:49:31 PM
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diver dan,

>>Catholics removed the book of Enoch from the apocrypha five hundred years ago.<<

I do not know much about this but Wikipedia says:

“Most Christian denominations and traditions may accept the Books of Enoch as having some historical or theological interest, but they generally regard the Books of Enoch as noncanonical or noninspired. It is regarded as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church, but not by any other Christian groups.”

>>That book has all the answers to the question of evil, you would ever need.<<

I do not think the problem of evil, that occupied the minds of theologians and other Christian thinkers for ages, had all the answers already at the times the book of Enoch was written.

Besides, I think the problem of evil is not about how "God dealt with the question of evil" but about how humans could/should understand His creation in spite of an apparent enigma built into it. You need mathematics to deal with the enigmas built into quantum physics, and you need faith to deal with the enigma of evil in God’s creation.
Posted by George, Friday, 24 May 2019 8:21:36 AM
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Well George, it was part and parcel of the Christian belief system for fifteen hundred years. That's a longer period three times over than its period of rejection.

Maybe you should check it out!

Dan.
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 24 May 2019 5:45:11 PM
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Dan,

>> it was part and parcel of the Christian belief system for fifteen hundred years <<

Whatever that means, it does not seem to contradict what I quoted from Wikipedia. However, as I said, I have not read it, and certainly am not a biblical historian or exegete.

>> That's a longer period three times over than its period of rejection.<<

There are many beliefs and interpretations of facts - e.g concerning cosmology - in the history of the West whose period of acceptance had been much longer than the “period of its rejection”. So one should not be surprised that this applies also to the acceptance of which parts of ancient scripture are to be accepted as “canonical”.

However, this is irrelevant to the philosophical attempts to reconcile the existence of evil with an appropriate interpretation of God’s omniscience, omnipotence and omnibenevolence.
Posted by George, Saturday, 25 May 2019 2:07:51 AM
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George.

I think your way of seeking answers to evil, (and other fundamental human questions), lacks acceptance that the human journey is a basic war of survival.

The whole of scripture could be disregarded on the same arguments used for the dismissal of Enoc. There were ulterior motives behind it IMO.

Christianity is based on a fundamental of "form".
The key word is fundamental. It's where Liberal Christians get it totally wrong.

Nobody George, is above the simple truth. The war in our society in the West, is raging between Fundamental Liberalism and Fundamentalist religion.
Rolling over to the enemy by denying the fundamental truth plainly spoken in the Bible, good is at war with evil, puts you in a position of compromise with your beliefs.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 27 May 2019 7:47:17 AM
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Dan,

I am not aware I was “seeking answers to evil”, at least not in this thread.

Otherwise I agree with much of what you wrote, especially about the tension between the two extreme ways of interpreting the Bible: Fundamental Liberalism and Fundamentalist religion. In my opinion, the right approach is - as is usual when dealing with opposite extremes - somewhere in between.
Posted by George, Monday, 27 May 2019 9:43:10 AM
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