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The Forum > Article Comments > Mistaken atheism, mistaken theism > Comments

Mistaken atheism, mistaken theism : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 28/3/2019

God is not an object in the universe and thus cannot be investigated or described in the same language that we use for other objects.

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To Daffy Duck.

What does the articles you posted have to do with Peter Sellick's article?

One being about death? The other rebranding Christianity? Is there something specific you wanted to relate about reality through those articles, or about the article Peter wrote? Or was it a knee-jerk reaction to the topic of Christianity from The article "Mistaken atheism, mistaken theism?"

Give some context to what your trying to say instead of giving a short sentence and pointing to two articles that don't seem to relate directly to what's being said here; and then hope we see the connection.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Saturday, 30 March 2019 3:17:37 AM
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Not_Now.Soon writes: "To Pogi. You said:

<<Reducing it to a metaphor seems like an act of desperation than anything else.>>

The good news I have for you is that God is not a metaphor. And no
I also don't see science as a threat."

If your deity is not a metaphor as Sellick claims, then your correction is better directed to him. Please take responsibility for the inconsistencies and contradictions of theism and scripture and refrain from trying to lumber the non-believer with them. Your concern about "good news" is of no concern to me. Regular nippng at the ankles of the unbeliever and uttering threadbare mottoes with a contrived enthusiasm is seen as deserving a rap on the nose with a rolled newspaper.If the faithful don't see science as a threat, when can we see cessation of their resort to the perversion that is creation "science" as a legitimate alternative to the real thing? Their authority has been found wanting at every turn in their tortuous path.
Posted by Pogi, Sunday, 31 March 2019 3:12:39 AM
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Yuyutsu, writes: "God is not a deity."

How would you identify the thing you and 1.5 bn other humans worship then? It seems that denying a ghostly, supernatural and spiritual existence to your object of worship finally closes off access to all and every capacity for existence. Without a monarch in paradise, only the realm of eternal discomfort remains, unless, of course, the subterranean denizens are themselves suffering the same redefinitions.

You write: "Well God is not a metaphor either, yet a desperate attempt of using this explanation to restore the faith of ordinary people in the market-place has its rightful positive place."

What a smug declaration of "special pleading"! Only a chosen few are privy to this lofty station, are they? Those of the elite of the elite, those with the sacred gift of "knowing" what the sweaty headcount is incapable of comprehending!
Continued....
Posted by Pogi, Sunday, 31 March 2019 4:41:33 AM
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....Continuation of my previous post to Yuyutsu.
You write further: "Not everyone has the time on their hands and the intellectual capacity to study God, but even those who are not (yet) in the position to study God can still learn to lead a good, honest moral life."

I confess to a certain astonishment that at my age, I'm faced with a level of self-congratulatory hubris previously not encountered. And this is held by yourself and your ilk to be the highest virtue. The level of your conceit is more than astonishing, it is utterly stupefying and confounding of all attempts at reconciling such a notion with your scripture.

And further: "Science undermines this because nothing in the realm of material science indicates that one ought to seek the good and avoid evil even if/when they could get away with it."

This really, is a risible observation quite congruent with your mindset. Your claim to intellectual prowess is, to the rational in society, dashed on the rocks of hubristic presumption and truly, reveals an ignorance of science that makes a joke of your claims to "specialness". Nothing in the realm of material science [is there a realm of immaterial or un-material science?] is concerned at all with matters metaphysical. Those of humankind unafflicted with original guilt or possessing an immunity to the concept of sin, those of humankind not constantly in need of a living threat of punishment, have acquired a profound knowledge from our fellow humans in the societies in which we live. The Principal of Reciprocity governs their realm of morality.
Posted by Pogi, Sunday, 31 March 2019 4:51:49 AM
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To Pogi.

I've tried a few times to talk to Peter about our views of faith. Admittedly much of the time it was that I disagreed with him but I've also tried to ask him about some things we hopefully would have a common ground on. At this point and based on some of the things he's said, my current worry is that he is either losing his faith or has already lost it. I've heard of a support group for ex-pastors who've lost their faith but haven't told their community about it. Known also to stay on the pulpit or their other roles in the church. (I hope this is not the case with Peter, but it is a concern).

You said:

<<Please take responsibility for the inconsistencies and contradictions of theism and scripture>>

I'm not a scholar or a priest/minister, but I can try. If you have an inconsistency or contradiction in mind, I can try to look into it, or if it's something I already have an answer for maybe give an answer sooner.

<<refrain from trying to lumber the non-believer with them.>>

If you mean to not hold religious views in the presence on nonChristians, then I have to inform you that I won't do this. I no longer see this as a fair or good idea, as I used to when I was a kid. Instead a person's faith should be something that is part of their lives completely. Otherwise can you really say they have faith in it. There are other reasons to reject the rationel, but this one is enough.

(continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 31 March 2019 5:21:27 AM
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(Continued)

You also said:

<<Regular nippng at the ankles of the unbeliever and uttering threadbare mottoes with a contrived enthusiasm is seen as deserving a rap on the nose with a rolled newspaper.>>

HA! I'd like to see you or anyone else try. I'm not a child or a pet for your rolled up paper, and instead if the opportunity arose I'd have to try to restrain myself from accepting that as the challenge that it is. No dice about it, the culture to try and silence Christians from openly speaking about their faith is something to chide that population about, often because they say they are trying to silence others in a hypocrisy of claiming it's for freedom of speech. Bollox and balderdash to the whole thing.

For this topic on Christianity that Peter started, wouldn't you be guilty of "nipping at the ankles" of believers? On other topics I see no reason to restrain my views even if they are religous views. If they hold merit (regardless of religous influence) that should be what counts.

(continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 31 March 2019 5:28:28 AM
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