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The Forum > Article Comments > United Nations weaponizes Hamas as Trump, EU and Israel reel > Comments

United Nations weaponizes Hamas as Trump, EU and Israel reel : Comments

By David Singer, published 13/12/2018

106 UN members had weaponized Hamas, abandoned the civilian population of a fellow member state and set a procedural precedent that the Islamic bloc will exploit again.

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Dear Not_Now.Soon,

"If the Palestinian governments showed any resolve to help their citizens then I'd consider calling them something else then just a terrorist organization."

The proof old boy is in the pudding.

By fiercely resisting the occupation Hamas has managed to keep Gaza as a contiguous area for the Palestinian people. The more compliant Fatah has seen the West Bank invaded with over a hundred thousand illegal settlers and constant harassment of Palestinians by occupation forces. The land is divided into virtual ghettos and a myriad of roadblocks and unlikely to ever be whole again.

So who do you think has look after their people better? Hamas or Fatah? And why do you want to deny and occupied people the right to resist?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Sunday, 16 December 2018 11:39:51 AM
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Hey Not_Now.Soon,
Ok here's what I think:
I think that given the potential confusion over who are and who aren't terrorists, I think that what you need to do is take a closer look at things.
And probably the first thing to do if you were to take a closer look is to see what the facts and statistics say.

- Real Basic Stuff -

1. Which side is under occupation?
2. What do the maps say?
3. What story do the numbers of dead / injured on each side say?

Those 3 questions might be a good place for you to start to look at the bigger picture.
I could go on a bigger rant, but I'll let it go.

QUOTE>>You asked about the lies I've been told on Russian aggression. Try to correct the "lies" of Russian aggression towards Ukraine.<<

Well I should probably ask if you're absolutely certain you want to go down this path? Lol

1. There were no lies in the article that I could tell, it was rather skillful writing honestly.
(However, there were lies contained in other NYT articles that this article linked to.)
2. Exactly which Russian aggression were you referring to exactly?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 16 December 2018 9:41:33 PM
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In a search for what Palistian aid has been used for I came across this link.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/where-does-the-palestinian-aid-money-go

This is obviously a Jewish narrative, but it has documented sources to back up the figures. And without any other narrative from Palestine accounts for how they use the aid they receive it only adds credence to the figures given. I am still looking for a Palestinian article on how they use the aid money they receive. If there are any sources to confirm the aid is used to develop Palestine territories instead of for criminal activities then I will consider that in my assessment of PLO and Hamas. As of now though the US has stopped giving aid to Palestine due to their use to pay suicide bombers and other terrorist activities.

As for the death toll. I will look into that more as well. I do not think that murder is justifiable under the cause of resistance. The death toll on Israel from what I understand is basically Palestinian fighters finding easy targets to kill off. Sometimes they are successful other times they are killed with Israeli people only injured. That said I will look into the deaths and the causes more.

There is a definite divide between The narrative told by Palestine and the one told by Israel. I use to trust the narrative from Palestine, and try to consider both. Nowadays you have to look past the arguments and look at what they are doing. See if they show any truth or reliability behind them.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Monday, 17 December 2018 4:13:28 AM
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Dear  Not_Now.Soon,

You wrote;

“As of now though the US has stopped giving aid to Palestine due to their use to pay suicide bombers and other terrorist activities.”

Aid money going to suicide bombers? Hardly.

In the 2000s there were 147 suicide attacks, since 2008 there have only been two.

The vast majority of attacks by Palestinians in the West Bank are upon uniformed members of the occupation forces not soft targets.

In the last Gaza war the UN HRC after a detailed inquiry found that 65% of those killed were civilians. Israel says the figure was 36%. During the campaign the IDF targeted Gazan policemen in their family homes.

So the question becomes whether by Israeli standards are Israeli police serving within the occupied territories legitimate targets? By virtue of most Israelis, through compulsory military service, having been trained to kill Palestinians does this make fighting age settlers legitimate targets within the occupied territories?

You see to profess any degree of even handedness when contemplating this issue you must be prepared to judge both sides in the same manner.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 17 December 2018 9:43:11 AM
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//But the two sides doing the fighting, only one cares to look after their citizens.//

What of a load of bollocks. Have you ever considered doing any fact checking for yourself, instead of just blindly swallowing and then regurgitating such obviously fantastical propaganda?

The Palestinian governments have provided schools:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_State_of_Palestine

And hospitals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospitals_in_the_State_of_Palestine

And they do their best to provide clean drinking water, although that swell bunch of humanitarians in Israel do their best to try to prevent them having access to one of the basic necessities of life:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_State_of_Palestine

It's pretty clear to me that you think 'looking after their citizens' means rolling over and capitulating to Israel. Basically, the Palestinians only have themselves to blame for the poor quality of their water even though it's controlled by Israel. If only they'd see sense and cede their territory to Israel without a fuss, then they could have all the clean drinking water they want.

//What would the result be if Israel was gone and the Palistian governments held the land? The whole land would be a breeding ground for terrorists and be kept in poverty to give the incentive to join the terrorist orginizations.//

Yeah, because that's how these things work. If Britain were have to been visited in the night by three Republican spirits and handed Northern Ireland back to the Republic without a fuss, do you think that would have stopped the IRA from expanding? Of course not: the whole of Ireland would have become a breeding ground for terrorists, and the Irish government would have kept them in a perpetual state of Potato Famine to incentivise the otherwise peaceful Irishmen into taking up arms for a cause that no longer existed. Because basically, the Irish (or at least, the Republican ones) are just pure evil.

Hmmm… on reflection it sounds a bit far-fetched, doesn't it?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 17 December 2018 8:06:14 PM
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•Regarding water responsibilities and the Palestinians responsibilities for their own water. (Even includes numbers of aid donations specified for water facilities that are unused).

http://www.thetower.org/article/the-myth-of-the-thirsty-palestinian/

______________________________________
•Regarding Israeli deaths due to Palestinian terror attacks. Doesn't look like they are just protecting their settlement or are any way rationalized. And is one reason I say to not just listen to the arguments but look at the details of the facts. Number don't lie (if they are truthful in the first place) but only conmen give numbers with no context to where they came from.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel

______________________________________
•Regarding Palestine's use of Aid money towards terrorists activities. (Sorry if anyone focused on suicide bombers. The fact that they EVER used that kind of method is a special kind of evil in my opinion. I count any of their terror payment based on aid money as a fraud and a sham that should be shut down, and shut down now.

http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Issues/Pages/Behind-the-Headlines-Hamas-exploitation-of-World-Vision-in-Gaza-to-support-terrorism-4-August-2016.aspx

https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/05/05/abbas-admits-to-norway-that-pa-still-paying-palestinian-terrorists-salaries/

________________________________________
•Regarding any other uses of Palestinian use of aid. Seriously, these things have been in the media every so often for years. The only way to trust the leaders of Palestine are to ignore everything that is reported about them, and ignore what they are actually doing. They are scum.

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2015/10/02/the-west-bank-tires-of-its-government

http://www.thetower.org/3101-how-hamas-uses-foreign-aid-to-enrich-itself-and-bilk-gazans/

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/28/gazas-millionaires-and-billionaires-how-hamass-leaders-got-rich-quick/

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/where-does-the-palestinian-aid-money-go
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 3:36:43 AM
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